Comments on: Bonds’ HOF fate tied to McGwire’s http://umpbump.com/press/2006/11/30/bonds-hof-fate-tied-to-mcgwires/ In-your-face baseball commentary Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:53:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Brooks Beasley http://umpbump.com/press/2006/11/30/bonds-hof-fate-tied-to-mcgwires/comment-page-1/#comment-52078 Brooks Beasley Sun, 18 Feb 2007 20:33:43 +0000 http://www.umpbump.com/press/?p=550#comment-52078 i think that mark macgwire is the best baseball prayer that ever lived because he is in it for the fun of the game and i do't think that mark took stillords or anything like that i think that mark macgwire is the best baseball prayer that ever lived because he is in it for the fun of the game and i do’t think that mark took stillords or anything like that

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]]> By: Sarah Green http://umpbump.com/press/2006/11/30/bonds-hof-fate-tied-to-mcgwires/comment-page-1/#comment-1299 Sarah Green Thu, 07 Dec 2006 01:08:50 +0000 http://www.umpbump.com/press/?p=550#comment-1299 It's just like the Williams sisters' dad, Coley. Or Beyonce's dad, or Britney's mom. Or any of them. It's not that we're underachievers. It's just that our parents aren't, you know, psycho. It’s just like the Williams sisters’ dad, Coley. Or Beyonce’s dad, or Britney’s mom. Or any of them. It’s not that we’re underachievers. It’s just that our parents aren’t, you know, psycho.

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]]> By: Sarah Green http://umpbump.com/press/2006/11/30/bonds-hof-fate-tied-to-mcgwires/comment-page-1/#comment-52077 Sarah Green Thu, 07 Dec 2006 00:20:59 +0000 http://www.umpbump.com/press/?p=550#comment-52077 So, basically, we all agree, except perhaps for a slight discrepancy over who the best baseball player of all time is. Where's the fun in that? Kumbayaaaaaaaa my lord, kumbayaaaaa. So, basically, we all agree, except perhaps for a slight discrepancy over who the best baseball player of all time is. Where’s the fun in that?

Kumbayaaaaaaaa my lord, kumbayaaaaa.

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]]> By: Nick Kapur http://umpbump.com/press/2006/11/30/bonds-hof-fate-tied-to-mcgwires/comment-page-1/#comment-52070 Nick Kapur Wed, 06 Dec 2006 23:59:21 +0000 http://www.umpbump.com/press/?p=550#comment-52070 Okay Coley, we're definitely on the same page now. I agree 100 percent that if Bonds is in, McGwire should be in too. Your point that their HoF fates should be tied together is right on. Okay Coley, we’re definitely on the same page now. I agree 100 percent that if Bonds is in, McGwire should be in too. Your point that their HoF fates should be tied together is right on.

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]]> By: Coley Ward http://umpbump.com/press/2006/11/30/bonds-hof-fate-tied-to-mcgwires/comment-page-1/#comment-52076 Coley Ward Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:07:50 +0000 http://www.umpbump.com/press/?p=550#comment-52076 First of all, Sarah, I think there's an argument to be made that Bonds is the best player ever, especially if you're not grading on a curve b/c of the whole steroids thing. But I'm not gonna make that argument right now. I just don't have it in me. Second, Nick, I agree that Bonds shouldn't be in the hall. But I think he'll get in. And what would really piss me off is Bonds getting in and MacGwire getting shut out. B/c where's the justice there? Where's the consistency? I just want baseball writers to take a stand and say, "right is right and wrong is wrong and steroids are wrong." Or, "steroids are no big deal." Whatever. But the same rules should apply to Bonds, MacGwire, and everybody else. It's when baseball writers start to talk about, "would he have been hall of fame worthy if he hadn't used steroids?" that I get really nervous. Who cares what Bonds/McGwire would have been like w/o steroids? They cheated! That should be it for them, right? First of all, Sarah, I think there’s an argument to be made that Bonds is the best player ever, especially if you’re not grading on a curve b/c of the whole steroids thing. But I’m not gonna make that argument right now. I just don’t have it in me.

Second, Nick, I agree that Bonds shouldn’t be in the hall. But I think he’ll get in. And what would really piss me off is Bonds getting in and MacGwire getting shut out. B/c where’s the justice there? Where’s the consistency? I just want baseball writers to take a stand and say, “right is right and wrong is wrong and steroids are wrong.” Or, “steroids are no big deal.” Whatever. But the same rules should apply to Bonds, MacGwire, and everybody else. It’s when baseball writers start to talk about, “would he have been hall of fame worthy if he hadn’t used steroids?” that I get really nervous. Who cares what Bonds/McGwire would have been like w/o steroids? They cheated! That should be it for them, right?

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]]> By: Nick Kapur http://umpbump.com/press/2006/11/30/bonds-hof-fate-tied-to-mcgwires/comment-page-1/#comment-52075 Nick Kapur Mon, 04 Dec 2006 07:11:39 +0000 http://www.umpbump.com/press/?p=550#comment-52075 And frankly, I just can't get all that riled up about the "sanctity" and the "honor" of the Hall of Fame. The Hall of Fame means whatever we want it to mean, and that meaning has been different over time. There are lots of people who don't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame but are, and several people that do, but aren't. Personally, I don't think Bonds should be in the Hall, ever, so I don't get very teary-eyed when you argue that we can't block McGwire because then we might have to block Bonds. We know for a fact that both Bonds and McGwire used steroids. They're cheaters - block em both is what I say. And the same goes for Pujols if he ever got caught, no matter how many ill-gotten MVPs he might have won afterwards. And frankly, I just can’t get all that riled up about the “sanctity” and the “honor” of the Hall of Fame. The Hall of Fame means whatever we want it to mean, and that meaning has been different over time. There are lots of people who don’t deserve to be in the Hall of Fame but are, and several people that do, but aren’t.

Personally, I don’t think Bonds should be in the Hall, ever, so I don’t get very teary-eyed when you argue that we can’t block McGwire because then we might have to block Bonds.

We know for a fact that both Bonds and McGwire used steroids. They’re cheaters – block em both is what I say. And the same goes for Pujols if he ever got caught, no matter how many ill-gotten MVPs he might have won afterwards.

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]]> By: Nick Kapur http://umpbump.com/press/2006/11/30/bonds-hof-fate-tied-to-mcgwires/comment-page-1/#comment-52074 Nick Kapur Mon, 04 Dec 2006 07:03:57 +0000 http://www.umpbump.com/press/?p=550#comment-52074 I disagree Coley. I don't see writers who don't vote Barry in on the first ballot as "trivializing" the honor of getting into the Hall of Fame. I see it as them <em>recognizing</em> what an additional honor it is to get in on the first ballot, and further <em>recognizing</em> that McGwire does not deserve that extra honor. I disagree Coley. I don’t see writers who don’t vote Barry in on the first ballot as “trivializing” the honor of getting into the Hall of Fame. I see it as them recognizing what an additional honor it is to get in on the first ballot, and further recognizing that McGwire does not deserve that extra honor.

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]]> By: Sarah Green http://umpbump.com/press/2006/11/30/bonds-hof-fate-tied-to-mcgwires/comment-page-1/#comment-52073 Sarah Green Sat, 02 Dec 2006 05:03:20 +0000 http://www.umpbump.com/press/?p=550#comment-52073 Clearly we need a post on how you decide who gets on the ballot. Scott Brosius?? That's how people are deserving one year and not the next. It's all about who's in your class. That's part of why tons of players get in after they've been on the ballot awhile. I, for instance, am rooting for Jim Rice this year, as I do every year. And finally, Ward, I can't believe you said Barry was the best player in the history of the game. Clearly we need a post on how you decide who gets on the ballot. Scott Brosius?? That’s how people are deserving one year and not the next. It’s all about who’s in your class. That’s part of why tons of players get in after they’ve been on the ballot awhile. I, for instance, am rooting for Jim Rice this year, as I do every year.

And finally, Ward, I can’t believe you said Barry was the best player in the history of the game.

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]]> By: Coley Ward http://umpbump.com/press/2006/11/30/bonds-hof-fate-tied-to-mcgwires/comment-page-1/#comment-52072 Coley Ward Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:16:10 +0000 http://www.umpbump.com/press/?p=550#comment-52072 Nick, I couldn't disagree more. It's an honor to get a Hall of Fame vote. One shouldn't trivialize that honor by using the vote to make a statement. It's like winning an Oscar and standing up and making a political speech. It's just tacky. If the guy's deserving, you vote for him. If he's not, he's not. But a player who's not deserving one year shouldn't be deserving the next. Nick, I couldn’t disagree more. It’s an honor to get a Hall of Fame vote. One shouldn’t trivialize that honor by using the vote to make a statement. It’s like winning an Oscar and standing up and making a political speech. It’s just tacky.

If the guy’s deserving, you vote for him. If he’s not, he’s not. But a player who’s not deserving one year shouldn’t be deserving the next.

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]]> By: Nick Kapur http://umpbump.com/press/2006/11/30/bonds-hof-fate-tied-to-mcgwires/comment-page-1/#comment-52071 Nick Kapur Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:32:09 +0000 http://www.umpbump.com/press/?p=550#comment-52071 I think there's a whole other angle to this decision which we haven't looked at yet. Namely, that this is only the first time McGwire will come up for a vote - he'll still have up to 14 more chances after this year. I think many writers realize this, and feel like they should at least make a pretty harsh statement now, on the first ballot, before quietly voting in McGwire a few years down the road. That's my prediction of how it will go down. Is McGwire a Hall of Famer? In all likelihood, yes. But does he deserve the added honor of being a <em>first-ballot</em> Hall of Famer? He most certainly does not. We are definitely not happy about what McGwire did, and we need to express our disapproval by not voting him in right away. I think there’s a whole other angle to this decision which we haven’t looked at yet. Namely, that this is only the first time McGwire will come up for a vote – he’ll still have up to 14 more chances after this year.

I think many writers realize this, and feel like they should at least make a pretty harsh statement now, on the first ballot, before quietly voting in McGwire a few years down the road. That’s my prediction of how it will go down.

Is McGwire a Hall of Famer? In all likelihood, yes. But does he deserve the added honor of being a first-ballot Hall of Famer? He most certainly does not.

We are definitely not happy about what McGwire did, and we need to express our disapproval by not voting him in right away.

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