Comments on: Ranking the Rookies http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/02/ranking-the-rookies/ In-your-face baseball commentary Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:30:20 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Paul Moro http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/02/ranking-the-rookies/comment-page-1/#comment-53208 Paul Moro Thu, 04 Oct 2007 18:42:22 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/ranking-the-rookies/#comment-53208 Sarah, I've wondered that about Francis (and Colorado pitchers on the whole) too. I agree with Nick that Colorado is still a top-3 hitter's park in the NL and this should be taken into consideration. But I also do think that there is a double standard of not giving pitchers enough credit. With that said, in this scenario of a Peavy-less world, Webb still wins because he also pitches in a hitter's haven. And there's a huge difference btwn a 4.20 ERA and 3.00, regardless of park factor. Plus, Francis' home-rad splits the last couple of years have been pretty similar. Sarah, I’ve wondered that about Francis (and Colorado pitchers on the whole) too. I agree with Nick that Colorado is still a top-3 hitter’s park in the NL and this should be taken into consideration. But I also do think that there is a double standard of not giving pitchers enough credit.

With that said, in this scenario of a Peavy-less world, Webb still wins because he also pitches in a hitter’s haven. And there’s a huge difference btwn a 4.20 ERA and 3.00, regardless of park factor. Plus, Francis’ home-rad splits the last couple of years have been pretty similar.

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]]> By: Sarah Green http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/02/ranking-the-rookies/comment-page-1/#comment-53207 Sarah Green Thu, 04 Oct 2007 18:28:32 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/ranking-the-rookies/#comment-53207 It's a good hitters' park to be sure, but I don't think the Coors field boost is worth taking away someone's ROY hardware. Consider: Jeff Francis has the fourth-most wins (17) in the NL, despite an ERA of 4.22. Pretend, for a moment, that Jake Peavy didn't exist and Francis was duking it out with, say, Brandon Webb (18 wins, 3.01 ERA) for the Cy Young. Would you give Francis the trophy because he had to pitch at Coors? It’s a good hitters’ park to be sure, but I don’t think the Coors field boost is worth taking away someone’s ROY hardware.

Consider: Jeff Francis has the fourth-most wins (17) in the NL, despite an ERA of 4.22. Pretend, for a moment, that Jake Peavy didn’t exist and Francis was duking it out with, say, Brandon Webb (18 wins, 3.01 ERA) for the Cy Young. Would you give Francis the trophy because he had to pitch at Coors?

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]]> By: Nick Kapur http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/02/ranking-the-rookies/comment-page-1/#comment-53206 Nick Kapur Thu, 04 Oct 2007 03:35:35 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/ranking-the-rookies/#comment-53206 Yeah, but every year the entire Rockies team plays better at home than on the road. Way, WAY better. Anyone who thinks that Coors field still isn't one of the best hitter's parks in the majors, despite the humidor, is delusional. Breaking balls still don't break, the outfield is still the largest in baseball, starting pitchers still fatigue faster at altitude, etc. etc. Yeah, but every year the entire Rockies team plays better at home than on the road.

Way, WAY better.

Anyone who thinks that Coors field still isn’t one of the best hitter’s parks in the majors, despite the humidor, is delusional.

Breaking balls still don’t break, the outfield is still the largest in baseball, starting pitchers still fatigue faster at altitude, etc. etc.

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]]> By: Sarah Green http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/02/ranking-the-rookies/comment-page-1/#comment-53210 Sarah Green Wed, 03 Oct 2007 18:11:34 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/ranking-the-rookies/#comment-53210 Hey Ron "Random Capitals" Scott, I talked about Josh Fields in my post (Cookies for Rookies). Plus, "I can see that you're a national league fan" doesn't naturally flow into "you can't see past the Yankees, Red Sox, and Cubs." Two of those teams are AL, dude. Coley, what are the splits for non-Rockies at Coors field? Your splits don't disprove the nub of David's argument, which is that many players play better at home than on the road. Hey Ron “Random Capitals” Scott,

I talked about Josh Fields in my post (Cookies for Rookies). Plus, “I can see that you’re a national league fan” doesn’t naturally flow into “you can’t see past the Yankees, Red Sox, and Cubs.” Two of those teams are AL, dude.

Coley, what are the splits for non-Rockies at Coors field? Your splits don’t disprove the nub of David’s argument, which is that many players play better at home than on the road.

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]]> By: Ron Scott http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/02/ranking-the-rookies/comment-page-1/#comment-53202 Ron Scott Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:26:08 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/ranking-the-rookies/#comment-53202 Although He Is Probably Not The Best Rookie, I Think That Josh Fields Of The White Sox Should Have Gotten At Least A Consideration. I Know He Played On A Bad Team This Year, But He Hit 24 Home Runs And Played A Very Good 3rd Base. His Average Was Low, But Not Lower Then Chris Youngs.(Also A Former Sox Rookie) I Can See That You Are Deffinately A National League Fan. All You Sports Writers Are The Same. You Can't See Past The Yankees, Red Sox And "CUBS". Nothing Changes From Year To Year. Thank You, Ron Scott Although He Is Probably Not The Best Rookie, I Think That Josh Fields Of The White Sox Should Have Gotten At Least A Consideration. I Know He Played On A Bad Team This Year, But He Hit 24 Home Runs And Played A Very Good 3rd Base. His Average Was Low, But Not Lower Then Chris Youngs.(Also A Former Sox Rookie) I Can See That You Are Deffinately A National League Fan. All You Sports Writers Are The Same. You Can’t See Past The Yankees, Red Sox And “CUBS”. Nothing Changes From Year To Year. Thank You, Ron Scott

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]]> By: Coley Ward http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/02/ranking-the-rookies/comment-page-1/#comment-53209 Coley Ward Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:18:11 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/ranking-the-rookies/#comment-53209 I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree w/ Mr. Becker, at least to an exent. While the humidor has no doubt cut down on the home runs at Coors, it hasn't done anything to change the fact that breaking balls don't break in Colorado. Don't believe me? Matt Holliday hit .376 at home this year and .301 on the road. Troy Tulowitzki hit .326 at home and .256 on the road. Garrett Atkins hit .349 at home and .254 on the road. I mean, come on. I’m gonna have to go ahead and disagree w/ Mr. Becker, at least to an exent. While the humidor has no doubt cut down on the home runs at Coors, it hasn’t done anything to change the fact that breaking balls don’t break in Colorado.

Don’t believe me?

Matt Holliday hit .376 at home this year and .301 on the road.

Troy Tulowitzki hit .326 at home and .256 on the road.

Garrett Atkins hit .349 at home and .254 on the road.

I mean, come on.

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]]> By: Sarah Green http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/02/ranking-the-rookies/comment-page-1/#comment-53201 Sarah Green Wed, 03 Oct 2007 14:50:37 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/ranking-the-rookies/#comment-53201 David, we've been having quite the debate about this in the comments under my ROY post. I think your comment says it better than I did, though. And Nick, come on. Starting pitchers are always harder to replace than position players, partly because they've been scarce ever since the expansion. I don't think, though, that you can use that to boost the "score" of a rookie pitcher who had a promising-but-not-fantastic season over the score of a rookie position player who had an awesome season. This year, Matsuzaka had some very good games and some very bad games. He ate up innings but he was inconsistent. Pedroia started slow, but caught fire in May and was very consistent after that. He became an integral part of the Boston lineup. There were only three Red Sox who finished the season hitting over .300, and Dustin Pedroia was one of them. Daisuke had an adjustment year. Pedroia had a breakout year. David, we’ve been having quite the debate about this in the comments under my ROY post. I think your comment says it better than I did, though.

And Nick, come on. Starting pitchers are always harder to replace than position players, partly because they’ve been scarce ever since the expansion. I don’t think, though, that you can use that to boost the “score” of a rookie pitcher who had a promising-but-not-fantastic season over the score of a rookie position player who had an awesome season. This year, Matsuzaka had some very good games and some very bad games. He ate up innings but he was inconsistent. Pedroia started slow, but caught fire in May and was very consistent after that. He became an integral part of the Boston lineup. There were only three Red Sox who finished the season hitting over .300, and Dustin Pedroia was one of them. Daisuke had an adjustment year. Pedroia had a breakout year.

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]]> By: David Becker http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/02/ranking-the-rookies/comment-page-1/#comment-53205 David Becker Wed, 03 Oct 2007 06:04:16 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/ranking-the-rookies/#comment-53205 Braun had a fantastic offensive season, but he also finished with a .895 fielding percentage, making 26 errors in 112 games. That is absolutely horrifying. Tulowitzki on the other hand made 11 errors in 155 games, good for a .987 fielding percentage and a likely Gold Glove...as a rookie. Not to mention he has hit the second highest home run total as a rookie shortstop and produce the highest number of runs (99 RBI.) He scored 104 runs on top of that. And please, stop with the Coors Field argument. It's getting extremely old. Tulowitzki isn't the only player in the major leagues (other than another Rockie) who played better at home than on the road. You don't benefit "greatly" from playing at Coors Field anymore. That's why there is a humidor... Braun had a fantastic offensive season, but he also finished with a .895 fielding percentage, making 26 errors in 112 games. That is absolutely horrifying. Tulowitzki on the other hand made 11 errors in 155 games, good for a .987 fielding percentage and a likely Gold Glove…as a rookie. Not to mention he has hit the second highest home run total as a rookie shortstop and produce the highest number of runs (99 RBI.) He scored 104 runs on top of that.

And please, stop with the Coors Field argument. It’s getting extremely old. Tulowitzki isn’t the only player in the major leagues (other than another Rockie) who played better at home than on the road. You don’t benefit “greatly” from playing at Coors Field anymore. That’s why there is a humidor…

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]]> By: Nick Kapur http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/02/ranking-the-rookies/comment-page-1/#comment-53204 Nick Kapur Wed, 03 Oct 2007 03:11:17 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/ranking-the-rookies/#comment-53204 Coley, these are good points, both. My answers would be: 1. I am definitely a member-for-life of the saves-are-overrated club, but as overrated as they are, they still say something, and all other things being equal (which they just about are in this case), having a lot more saves is going to tip the scales in your favor. 2. If your performance is "harder to replace," doesn't that mean, by definition, that your performance was better? To me, a catcher who hits 25 home runs is a better player than a first baseman who hits 30. Coley, these are good points, both. My answers would be:

1. I am definitely a member-for-life of the saves-are-overrated club, but as overrated as they are, they still say something, and all other things being equal (which they just about are in this case), having a lot more saves is going to tip the scales in your favor.

2. If your performance is “harder to replace,” doesn’t that mean, by definition, that your performance was better? To me, a catcher who hits 25 home runs is a better player than a first baseman who hits 30.

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]]> By: Sarah Green http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/02/ranking-the-rookies/comment-page-1/#comment-53203 Sarah Green Tue, 02 Oct 2007 23:10:14 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/ranking-the-rookies/#comment-53203 Nick, you make a good point about the relative depth of the rookie class in the AL versus the NL. But yes, I believe I can speak for the AL when I say that we will steal all your rookies once they hit free agency. We will continue to raid your best players until you guys feel like paying them a competitive rate. I don't make the rules of capitalism, I just live by them. :) Nick, you make a good point about the relative depth of the rookie class in the AL versus the NL.

But yes, I believe I can speak for the AL when I say that we will steal all your rookies once they hit free agency. We will continue to raid your best players until you guys feel like paying them a

competitive rate.

I don’t make the rules of capitalism, I just live by them. :)

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