Comments on: Live Blogging the World Series: SOX v. ROX http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/24/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/ In-your-face baseball commentary Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:48:13 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Rich http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/24/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/comment-page-1/#comment-53568 Rich Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:36:54 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/#comment-53568 Paul, you are right that it is the pitcher's call in the end. Much to Schilling's dismay. Evidence A: June 7, 2007. Schilling shakes off Varitek. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270607111 Evidence B: September 1, 2007. Listen to the catcher. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270901102 Paul, you are right that it is the pitcher’s call in the end. Much to Schilling’s dismay.

Evidence A:

June 7, 2007. Schilling shakes off Varitek.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270607111

Evidence B:

September 1, 2007. Listen to the catcher.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270901102

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]]> By: Sarah Green http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/24/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/comment-page-1/#comment-53570 Sarah Green Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:46:47 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/#comment-53570 Yes, it's ultimately the pitcher's call. But the catchers study the matchups and the opposing lineup's tendencies too, at least the good ones. And Curt Schilling is already on the record saying that Josh Beckett "isn't exactly a charter member of Mensa." I mean, the guy has a wicked curveball and a high-90s fastball, so maybe pitch selection isn't as important for him anyway---unhittable is unhittable in any count. But Varitek has caught a number of no-hitters over the years, and in the most recent one, his pitcher didn't shake him off once. No, it's not a "Catcher's Pitch-Calling Efficiency Park-Adjusted Rating," but it is a certain kind of solid evidence. When you look at the Red Sox as a team, and you see how they've performed over recent years, the one absolute is that Varitek must be healthy. Not healthy enough to hit to his career .270, necessarily, but healthy enough to squat behind the plate every four out of five games. The two years that he missed significant time, the team has tanked in spectacular fashion---2001 (Varitek breaks elbow, misses most of season, Sox miss playoffs) and 2006 (Varitek needs knee surgery, misses about a month at end of season, Sox miss playoffs and finish third in the AL East). In Boston, we know what the stat-heads with the 30,000-foot view refuse to admit: the one position player the Red Sox simply cannot do without is Jason Varitek. To wit: Manny Ramirez missed almost a month this season, and the Sox still won the division and they're now in the World Series. If Varitek had missed that month? We might have clinched the Wild Card, but I doubt we would have made it past the Indians. Yes, it’s ultimately the pitcher’s call. But the catchers study the matchups and the opposing lineup’s tendencies too, at least the good ones. And Curt Schilling is already on the record saying that Josh Beckett “isn’t exactly a charter member of Mensa.” I mean, the guy has a wicked curveball and a high-90s fastball, so maybe pitch selection isn’t as important for him anyway—unhittable is unhittable in any count. But Varitek has caught a number of no-hitters over the years, and in the most recent one, his pitcher didn’t shake him off once. No, it’s not a “Catcher’s Pitch-Calling Efficiency Park-Adjusted Rating,” but it is a certain kind of solid evidence. When you look at the Red Sox as a team, and you see how they’ve performed over recent years, the one absolute is that Varitek must be healthy. Not healthy enough to hit to his career .270, necessarily, but healthy enough to squat behind the plate every four out of five games. The two years that he missed significant time, the team has tanked in spectacular fashion—2001 (Varitek breaks elbow, misses most of season, Sox miss playoffs) and 2006 (Varitek needs knee surgery, misses about a month at end of season, Sox miss playoffs and finish third in the AL East). In Boston, we know what the stat-heads with the 30,000-foot view refuse to admit: the one position player the Red Sox simply cannot do without is Jason Varitek. To wit: Manny Ramirez missed almost a month this season, and the Sox still won the division and they’re now in the World Series. If Varitek had missed that month? We might have clinched the Wild Card, but I doubt we would have made it past the Indians.

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]]> By: Paul Moro http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/24/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/comment-page-1/#comment-53569 Paul Moro Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:10:12 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/#comment-53569 Sarah, count me among the people who think that catchers "calling a good game" is incredibly overblown. Any pitcher who knows what they're doing on the mound are the ones who actually call it. But obviously, the pitcher can't be the one putting fingers down or else the hitter sees it. So the catchers do. What is important is that the catcher knows what pitch the guy on the mound likes to throw in what situation. If they're not on the same page, the pitcher can get distracted. But ultimately, it's the pitcher's call, not the catcher's. Sarah, count me among the people who think that catchers “calling a good game” is incredibly overblown. Any pitcher who knows what they’re doing on the mound are the ones who actually call it. But obviously, the pitcher can’t be the one putting fingers down or else the hitter sees it. So the catchers do.

What is important is that the catcher knows what pitch the guy on the mound likes to throw in what situation. If they’re not on the same page, the pitcher can get distracted. But ultimately, it’s the pitcher’s call, not the catcher’s.

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]]> By: Rich http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/24/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/comment-page-1/#comment-53566 Rich Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:37:41 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/#comment-53566 Given hindsight, this line made me chuckle: 9:19 Francis seems to be finding a groove. We might have ourselves a game if he can keep the Sox from scoring in the next two innings. Given hindsight, this line made me chuckle:

9:19 Francis seems to be finding a groove. We might have ourselves a game if he can keep the Sox from scoring in the next two innings.

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]]> By: Sarah Green http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/24/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/comment-page-1/#comment-53567 Sarah Green Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:54:07 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/#comment-53567 ..Just when he sensed the Rockies were catching to his heater, Beckett mixes in his curve. Only to come back with a 97 mph rope to strike out Hawpe.... Alejandro, undoubtedly Beckett is doing things in the postseason even the most rabid Sox fan wouldn't dared dream of just a couple of weeks ago, but give some credit to Varitek. I know it's sort of fashionable to mock all that but-he-calls-a-good-game stuff as sentimental hogwash (after all, Bill James never invented a stat for it, right, so it can't be real!) but the man sure knows his stuff! ..Just when he sensed the Rockies were catching to his heater, Beckett mixes in his curve. Only to come back with a 97 mph rope to strike out Hawpe….

Alejandro, undoubtedly Beckett is doing things in the postseason even the most rabid Sox fan wouldn’t dared dream of just a couple of weeks ago, but give some credit to Varitek. I know it’s sort of fashionable to mock all that but-he-calls-a-good-game stuff as sentimental hogwash (after all, Bill James never invented a stat for it, right, so it can’t be real!) but the man sure knows his stuff!

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]]> By: BigDintheMT http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/24/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/comment-page-1/#comment-29199 BigDintheMT Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:03:02 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/#comment-29199 Key paragraph: "Schuerholz employed a similar strategy with position players as he did with relievers. Each year he would let all of his good free agents walk, and pretty much not replace them in any meaningful way, but the Braves would still win the division anyway. Oh sure, he would occasionally pull a trade to fill a hole, if one fell into his lap, but by and large he would just sign some scrap heap guys and sit back and wait for a Braves prospect to fill the hole eventually. This meant that hundreds and hundreds of at-bats got wasted on these fill-in guys - terrible players like Dave Gallagher, Michael Tucker, Tony Graffanino, Keith Lockhart, Gerald Williams, Brian Hunter, Bobby Bonilla, B.J. Surhoff, Rico Brogna, Robert Fick, and Vinny Castilla in his dotage." And 14 consecutive division titles. Wow. He's even smarter than I thought he was. He didn't have the money to spend on 8 All-Star position players so he did what he could with what he had. That's what made him great. And don't forget - he brought in Maddux via free agency which, put together with Glavine and Smoltz (home grown talent, led to a majority of those titles. Key paragraph:

“Schuerholz employed a similar strategy with position players as he did with relievers. Each year he would let all of his good free agents walk, and pretty much not replace them in any meaningful way, but the Braves would still win the division anyway. Oh sure, he would occasionally pull a trade to fill a hole, if one fell into his lap, but by and large he would just sign some scrap heap guys and sit back and wait for a Braves prospect to fill the hole eventually. This meant that hundreds and hundreds of at-bats got wasted on these fill-in guys – terrible players like Dave Gallagher, Michael Tucker, Tony Graffanino, Keith Lockhart, Gerald Williams, Brian Hunter, Bobby Bonilla, B.J. Surhoff, Rico Brogna, Robert Fick, and Vinny Castilla in his dotage.”

And 14 consecutive division titles. Wow. He’s even smarter than I thought he was. He didn’t have the money to spend on 8 All-Star position players so he did what he could with what he had. That’s what made him great.

And don’t forget – he brought in Maddux via free agency which, put together with Glavine and Smoltz (home grown talent, led to a majority of those titles.

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]]> By: Danny O http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/24/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/comment-page-1/#comment-29194 Danny O Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:59:53 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/#comment-29194 Wow, great discussion. Nick and I have already exchanged our viewpoints on the subject of John Schuerholz’s GM abilities, so I won’t beat a dead horse. I’ll just sum it up by saying I respectfully disagree with him. (If Nick ever wants to write a contrarian book about Schuerholz I’m sure it’ll generate a lot of press.) I want to address a couple of things that were brought up by JoshuaPerry: Who did the Braves let go for Mike Hampton? Why it was the always deadly Tim Spooneybarger (now out of the majors) and a minor leaguer who has never made it to The Show. Braves got Mike Hampton and a bunch of cash. A whole lot of it. (I think Colorado is still paying a big chunk of his salary.) Yes, Hampton has been injured the last two years, but while he’s been healthy he’s gone 32-20 for the Braves and his Atlanta ERA is somewhere south of the number 4. I’d say that was a good deal for the Braves. (I wanted to include it as well as many other transactions in my retrospective post on Schuerholz but I didn’t want it to be too long.) Successful free agent signings since 1997? There aren’t that many (purse strings were set to “tight”) How bout: November, 1998: Signed Brian Jordan, who went on to have a career year in 1999. Aside from that, there’s not much. John Thomson had a good year right after he signed, but followed it up with two injury-riddled years. The Braves have re-signed a number of players in the past ten years, and have certainly made some deals for some big name guys (Hudson, Sheffield, for examples). Wow, great discussion.

Nick and I have already exchanged our viewpoints on the subject of John Schuerholz’s GM abilities, so I won’t beat a dead horse. I’ll just sum it up by saying I respectfully disagree with him. (If Nick ever wants to write a contrarian book about Schuerholz I’m sure it’ll generate a lot of press.)

I want to address a couple of things that were brought up by JoshuaPerry:

Who did the Braves let go for Mike Hampton? Why it was the always deadly Tim Spooneybarger (now out of the majors) and a minor leaguer who has never made it to The Show. Braves got Mike Hampton and a bunch of cash. A whole lot of it. (I think Colorado is still paying a big chunk of his salary.) Yes, Hampton has been injured the last two years, but while he’s been healthy he’s gone 32-20 for the Braves and his Atlanta ERA is somewhere south of the number 4. I’d say that was a good deal for the Braves. (I wanted to include it as well as many other transactions in my retrospective post on Schuerholz but I didn’t want it to be too long.)

Successful free agent signings since 1997? There aren’t that many (purse strings were set to “tight”) How bout:
November, 1998: Signed Brian Jordan, who went on to have a career year in 1999.

Aside from that, there’s not much. John Thomson had a good year right after he signed, but followed it up with two injury-riddled years. The Braves have re-signed a number of players in the past ten years, and have certainly made some deals for some big name guys (Hudson, Sheffield, for examples).

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]]> By: Zvee Geffen http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/24/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/comment-page-1/#comment-29053 Zvee Geffen Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:34:31 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/#comment-29053 Melissa, thanks for clarifying. I will let Nick answer the part of your question about the players that the Braves let go. But I will try to address the other points that you raised. You make a good point about the somewhat random capricious nature of winning in the playoffs. Thus, Schuerholz's "average" of 1 World Series win per 17 seasons as Braves GM is a rather dismal .058. Yet, when you look at the total number of times the Braves made it to the series, his performance as GM looks better---five total trips to the series out of 17 season is a much better .294. So clearly, his legacy as a GM should reflect the total number of times the Braves went to the World Series, not just their one win. I think it's clear that five trips to the Series is a major accomplishment. Nonetheless, when assigning credit for that accomplishment, you do have to take into account the contributions of Bobby Cox and the coaching staff, which is what Nick's main point was. This is a rather crude comparison, but if you look at Schuerholz's record with the Royals, it's not nearly as good as his record with the Braves---two divisional titles in 9 years, and one World Series win. (One-for-nine is an average of .111.) Clearly, Schuerholz does not look like some brilliant clairvoyant when working with different staff. And, to go back to my point in a previous comment, he looks like less of a golden boy when in a less forgiving division than the NL East in the 1990s and early 2000s. So yeah, Schuerholz was a good GM, but he wasn't a genius with a crystal ball, which is how nearly every media outlet has been portraying him since he announced his resignation. He was a good GM, and a great eye for talent, who had great people around him. And re: Cashman, I think he actually has very little room for error, what with the New York media breathing down his neck and Steinbrenner's notoriously short leash/quick hook. He has a significant cushion of money to play with, meaning that he is better able to move past any error that he makes. But...he really just doesn't make that many mistakes in the first place. If he did, he'd be outtah theah. Melissa, thanks for clarifying. I will let Nick answer the part of your question about the players that the Braves let go. But I will try to address the other points that you raised.

You make a good point about the somewhat random capricious nature of winning in the playoffs. Thus, Schuerholz’s “average” of 1 World Series win per 17 seasons as Braves GM is a rather dismal .058. Yet, when you look at the total number of times the Braves made it to the series, his performance as GM looks better—five total trips to the series out of 17 season is a much better .294. So clearly, his legacy as a GM should reflect the total number of times the Braves went to the World Series, not just their one win. I think it’s clear that five trips to the Series is a major accomplishment.

Nonetheless, when assigning credit for that accomplishment, you do have to take into account the contributions of Bobby Cox and the coaching staff, which is what Nick’s main point was. This is a rather crude comparison, but if you look at Schuerholz’s record with the Royals, it’s not nearly as good as his record with the Braves—two divisional titles in 9 years, and one World Series win. (One-for-nine is an average of .111.) Clearly, Schuerholz does not look like some brilliant clairvoyant when working with different staff. And, to go back to my point in a previous comment, he looks like less of a golden boy when in a less forgiving division than the NL East in the 1990s and early 2000s. So yeah, Schuerholz was a good GM, but he wasn’t a genius with a crystal ball, which is how nearly every media outlet has been portraying him since he announced his resignation. He was a good GM, and a great eye for talent, who had great people around him.

And re: Cashman, I think he actually has very little room for error, what with the New York media breathing down his neck and Steinbrenner’s notoriously short leash/quick hook. He has a significant cushion of money to play with, meaning that he is better able to move past any error that he makes. But…he really just doesn’t make that many mistakes in the first place. If he did, he’d be outtah theah.

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]]> By: melissa http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/24/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/comment-page-1/#comment-29038 melissa Mon, 15 Oct 2007 20:07:40 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/#comment-29038 I just want to clarify my point that Atlanta's 14 division titles are the proof of Schuerholz's success not the "ultimate measure of success" in general. Obviously the ultimate goal of an organization is to win the World Series, which the Braves did accomplish. If a general manager consistently puts together a division champion his team will have a chance to win the World Series. The best team in a division normally wins over 162 games, the best team doesn't always win in a playoff format. I believe that success in the playoffs is more dependent on the performance of the players and the coaching staff than the GM. You may say that other GMs are superior but they weren't able to lose free agents and rebuild and still win division titles. Beane and Ryan have rebuilt but their teams didn't win 14 divisional titles in the process and no one has had more room for error than Cashman. I'm still waiting to hear which players he let go that cost his franchise. I just want to clarify my point that Atlanta’s 14 division titles are the proof of Schuerholz’s success not the “ultimate measure of success” in general. Obviously the ultimate goal of an organization is to win the World Series, which the Braves did accomplish. If a general manager consistently puts together a division champion his team will have a chance to win the World Series. The best team in a division normally wins over 162 games, the best team doesn’t always win in a playoff format. I believe that success in the playoffs is more dependent on the performance of the players and the coaching staff than the GM. You may say that other GMs are superior but they weren’t able to lose free agents and rebuild and still win division titles. Beane and Ryan have rebuilt but their teams didn’t win 14 divisional titles in the process and no one has had more room for error than Cashman. I’m still waiting to hear which players he let go that cost his franchise.

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]]> By: Nick Kapur http://umpbump.com/press/2007/10/24/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/comment-page-1/#comment-28992 Nick Kapur Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:15:25 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/live-blogging-the-world-series-sox-v-rox/#comment-28992 Kevin, it's impossible for this post to be "true" or "false." It's my opinion, and opinions can't be true or false. But feel free to disagree, as you clearly do. Kevin, it’s impossible for this post to be “true” or “false.” It’s my opinion, and opinions can’t be true or false.

But feel free to disagree, as you clearly do.

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