Comments on: Braves pitchers so very, very old. http://umpbump.com/press/2007/11/20/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/ In-your-face baseball commentary Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:30:20 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Paul Moro http://umpbump.com/press/2007/11/20/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/comment-page-1/#comment-53917 Paul Moro Wed, 21 Nov 2007 05:13:23 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/#comment-53917 Zvee, low blow. Total low blow. Never said that the Ted was a launching pad. But it's not as much a pitcher's park as Shea is. Even if you disagree with that sentiment (even though all metrics of park factor back me up on this), what makes you think that he'll do better in Atlanta? The guy's fastball clocks in in the low 80s now. That's no exaggeration. Regularly hits 83-84. He allowed career highs in homeruns. He had a WHIP of 1.41. I don't see how pitching in Atlanta's going to change this. And I never argued that $8m is a bad deal. I have a bigger problem with giving up the #1 draft pick. Glavine's not a #3 starter anymore. He's probably a 5, maybe 4. I also have no idea how pushing Chuck James back to the #4 spot is better than him at 3. Does James magically face worse hitters or something if he's in #4? The Mets collapse was big, but it wasn't the biggest. Know your baseball history, Geffen, and stop riding David O'Brien's jock. Despite this, the Mets were still four games ahead of Atlanta. So what does that say about the Braves? Zvee, low blow. Total low blow.

Never said that the Ted was a launching pad. But it’s not as much a pitcher’s park as Shea is. Even if you disagree with that sentiment (even though all metrics of park factor back me up on this), what makes you think that he’ll do better in Atlanta? The guy’s fastball clocks in in the low 80s now. That’s no exaggeration. Regularly hits 83-84. He allowed career highs in homeruns. He had a WHIP of 1.41. I don’t see how pitching in Atlanta’s going to change this.

And I never argued that $8m is a bad deal. I have a bigger problem with giving up the #1 draft pick. Glavine’s not a #3 starter anymore. He’s probably a 5, maybe 4. I also have no idea how pushing Chuck James back to the #4 spot is better than him at 3. Does James magically face worse hitters or something if he’s in #4?

The Mets collapse was big, but it wasn’t the biggest. Know your baseball history, Geffen, and stop riding David O’Brien’s jock. Despite this, the Mets were still four games ahead of Atlanta. So what does that say about the Braves?

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]]> By: Zvee http://umpbump.com/press/2007/11/20/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/comment-page-1/#comment-53916 Zvee Wed, 21 Nov 2007 03:41:19 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/#comment-53916 I just don't understand how, in this market, an $8M contract for a 3rd starter can be considered a bad deal. Glavine isn't running on fumes. He pitched over 190 innings last year with an ERA in the mid 4s - not Cy Young form, but to say he's completely run out of gas would be a drastic exaggeration. It's well worth the investment for the Braves if Glavine can log those innings, retain a mid 4 era, and push Chuck James back to the #4 spot. And Paul, it's not like the Ted is a lauching pad. The place is fucking huge, just like Shea. Why can't Glavine keep the ball in the park in Atlanta? I think it's just wishful thinking from a fan whose team successfully completed the biggest collapse in baseball history. Go Braves. I just don’t understand how, in this market, an $8M contract for a 3rd starter can be considered a bad deal. Glavine isn’t running on fumes. He pitched over 190 innings last year with an ERA in the mid 4s – not Cy Young form, but to say he’s completely run out of gas would be a drastic exaggeration. It’s well worth the investment for the Braves if Glavine can log those innings, retain a mid 4 era, and push Chuck James back to the #4 spot.

And Paul, it’s not like the Ted is a lauching pad. The place is fucking huge, just like Shea. Why can’t Glavine keep the ball in the park in Atlanta? I think it’s just wishful thinking from a fan whose team successfully completed the biggest collapse in baseball history.

Go Braves.

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]]> By: Danny O http://umpbump.com/press/2007/11/20/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/comment-page-1/#comment-53915 Danny O Tue, 20 Nov 2007 18:47:45 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/#comment-53915 Look, I like Mike Hampton when he's on the mound. He's tough competitor, and he hates to lose. But let's be real: Ten wins from him would be nothing short of a miracle. I think the Braves' management would be wise to simply say that the "he is currently rehabbing, we'll see how he feels in March." This would help to end the perception that many fans have of the Braves counting on Hampton to return to All-Star form. To count on someone who has been so unreliable healthwise just looks incompetent. Look, I like Mike Hampton when he’s on the mound. He’s tough competitor, and he hates to lose. But let’s be real: Ten wins from him would be nothing short of a miracle. I think the Braves’ management would be wise to simply say that the “he is currently rehabbing, we’ll see how he feels in March.” This would help to end the perception that many fans have of the Braves counting on Hampton to return to All-Star form. To count on someone who has been so unreliable healthwise just looks incompetent.

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]]> By: Paul Moro http://umpbump.com/press/2007/11/20/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/comment-page-1/#comment-53914 Paul Moro Tue, 20 Nov 2007 18:45:58 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/#comment-53914 Law's right. Glavine's running on fumes. I don't see why the Braves would give up their #1 pick while paying Glavine $8m to be a #4 or 5 starter. Now I don't know what the status of Hampton is. If he can go, then a rotation of Hudson, Smoltz, Hampton, James, and Jurrjens is not a bad situation. If Glavine can't keep the ball in the park pitching at Shea, I can't imagine he'll do much better at the Ted. Law’s right. Glavine’s running on fumes. I don’t see why the Braves would give up their #1 pick while paying Glavine $8m to be a #4 or 5 starter. Now I don’t know what the status of Hampton is. If he can go, then a rotation of Hudson, Smoltz, Hampton, James, and Jurrjens is not a bad situation. If Glavine can’t keep the ball in the park pitching at Shea, I can’t imagine he’ll do much better at the Ted.

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]]> By: Paul Moro http://umpbump.com/press/2007/11/20/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/comment-page-1/#comment-31640 Paul Moro Thu, 01 Nov 2007 02:36:52 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/#comment-31640 melissa, I completely disagree. I would MUCH rather have A-Rod than Joe Torre. A-Rod was worth 14 extra wins to his team last year above an average third baseman. How many extra wins was Joe Torre worth to his team above an average manager? Maybe 1 or 2, if any. Having a good manager is great, but ultimately it's the players on the field who win or lose. Managers can lose games for their team by making stupid moves, but it's pretty hard for a manager alone to add a lot of extra wins. Sure, Joe Torre won some championships in New York, but he had great, GREAT players. And he still didn't win 7 out of 12 years. And Joe Torre managed for 14 years in the majors before he came to the Yankees, and didn't win a thing. It all starts with great players. The Dodgers are much more likely to improve their record next season by signing A-Rod and not Joe Torre, than by signing Joe Torre and not A-Rod. melissa,

I completely disagree. I would MUCH rather have A-Rod than Joe Torre. A-Rod was worth 14 extra wins to his team last year above an average third baseman. How many extra wins was Joe Torre worth to his team above an average manager? Maybe 1 or 2, if any.

Having a good manager is great, but ultimately it’s the players on the field who win or lose. Managers can lose games for their team by making stupid moves, but it’s pretty hard for a manager alone to add a lot of extra wins.

Sure, Joe Torre won some championships in New York, but he had great, GREAT players. And he still didn’t win 7 out of 12 years. And Joe Torre managed for 14 years in the majors before he came to the Yankees, and didn’t win a thing.

It all starts with great players. The Dodgers are much more likely to improve their record next season by signing A-Rod and not Joe Torre, than by signing Joe Torre and not A-Rod.

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]]> By: melissa http://umpbump.com/press/2007/11/20/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/comment-page-1/#comment-31589 melissa Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:10:26 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/#comment-31589 Nick, Even if the Dodgers overpaid Torre they still have plenty of money to get whatever players they would want, it's not an either or proposition. Say they pay him $6 million/year, that won't limit their payroll. I agree that young managers can come in and do a sufficient job. I think Ozzie Guillen was an example of a young manager that came in and helped an organization get to and win a Series. I also believe that there are veteran managers that are difference makers such as Tony LaRussa, Lou Piniella, and Bobby Cox, all worth "over-paying." Don't you think a ball club would be better off bringing in a great manager than a great player such as A-Rod? Nick,
Even if the Dodgers overpaid Torre they still have plenty of money to get whatever players they would want, it’s not an either or proposition. Say they pay him $6 million/year, that won’t limit their payroll. I agree that young managers can come in and do a sufficient job. I think Ozzie Guillen was an example of a young manager that came in and helped an organization get to and win a Series. I also believe that there are veteran managers that are difference makers such as Tony LaRussa, Lou Piniella, and Bobby Cox, all worth “over-paying.” Don’t you think a ball club would be better off bringing in a great manager than a great player such as A-Rod?

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]]> By: Zvee Geffen http://umpbump.com/press/2007/11/20/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/comment-page-1/#comment-31585 Zvee Geffen Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:33:02 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/#comment-31585 Bwahaha. Poor Joe Torre. He may be destined for an early grave if he goes from dealing with crazy George Steinbrenner to dealing with crazy Frank McCourt. Bwahaha. Poor Joe Torre. He may be destined for an early grave if he goes from dealing with crazy George Steinbrenner to dealing with crazy Frank McCourt.

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]]> By: Rich http://umpbump.com/press/2007/11/20/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/comment-page-1/#comment-31583 Rich Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:05:46 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/#comment-31583 Third most important job: dealing with management. Torre is quite good at that as well. Third most important job: dealing with management. Torre is quite good at that as well.

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]]> By: Paul Moro http://umpbump.com/press/2007/11/20/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/comment-page-1/#comment-31527 Paul Moro Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:33:37 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/#comment-31527 melissa, I think paying an extra premium to get a "name" manager is an even worse idea than paying extra for a big-name player. I guarantee you there are tons of very capable managers in the minor leagues who can succeed at the major league level. But someone has to give them a shot. How did Joe Torre or any of the other famous managers first get hired? I'd rather see the Dodgers try to find the next Joe Torre, whom they could hire for a fraction of the cost, rather than hiring the actual Joe Torre. To me hiring Torre at an exorbitant price just reeks of desperation and a desire to be thought well of by the press and the fans rather than being a smart baseball move. melissa, I think paying an extra premium to get a “name” manager is an even worse idea than paying extra for a big-name player.

I guarantee you there are tons of very capable managers in the minor leagues who can succeed at the major league level. But someone has to give them a shot. How did Joe Torre or any of the other famous managers first get hired?

I’d rather see the Dodgers try to find the next Joe Torre, whom they could hire for a fraction of the cost, rather than hiring the actual Joe Torre. To me hiring Torre at an exorbitant price just reeks of desperation and a desire to be thought well of by the press and the fans rather than being a smart baseball move.

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]]> By: melissa http://umpbump.com/press/2007/11/20/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/comment-page-1/#comment-31518 melissa Wed, 31 Oct 2007 02:27:56 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/braves-pitchers-so-very-very-old/#comment-31518 Nick, You are probably right with your thinking that the Dodgers' money could be better spent than on Joe Torre. Don't the Dodgers have plenty of money to spend on a better manager as well as the rest of their ball club? If not Torre then who? Nick,
You are probably right with your thinking that the Dodgers’ money could be better spent than on Joe Torre. Don’t the Dodgers have plenty of money to spend on a better manager as well as the rest of their ball club? If not Torre then who?

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