“Babe Ruth once walked 170 times in a season. Ted Williams averaged 143 walks per 162 games. And even Ty Cobb, who we might think of as the epitome of a slap-hitter, had a season in which he walked 118 times.”

And I thought to myself, “But I thought that was before intentional walks were recorded as intentional.” And indeed, this is true. So perhaps the Babe and the Kid and Ty were intentionally walked? Perhaps they weren’t drawing those walks after 13-pitch at-bats a la Kevin Youkilis? Perhaps they didn’t “clearly understand the value of walks in some sense.” Perhaps they had no choice.

Anyway, I forget where I found that Mel Ott thing. I think I googled something like “first ballot hall of famers home road splits.”

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But to answer your question, the intentional walk wasn’t tracked for each player until 1955.

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Mel Ott has an astonishingly good career line of .304/.414/.533, hit 511 home runs, and has a ridiculous career OPS of 155 (which is adjusted for park effects). Mel Ott was a first-ballot Hall of Famer, and rightly so.

Nobody would care about Jim Rice’s home-road splits if he were a clear and obvious choice for the Hall of Fame. But since his overall numbers are already borderline, and his road splits are truly mediocre (only .789 OPS!), then it becomes an issue.

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Should Mel Ott not be in the Hall of Fame?

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Yes, pitchers are included, but they should only have a small effect on the overall stats. Upper limit of 1/18 (1/9 ABs, divided by 2, due to the different leagues) and likely smaller even than that due to substitutions and fewer atbats in the 9hole.

more thoughts later, but interesting post.

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Even if walks were not valued, truly great hitter’s clearly understood the value of walks in some sense, if only that laying off bad pitches let them hit good pitches harder. Babe Ruth once walked 170 times in a season. Ted Williams averaged 143 walks per 162 games. And even Ty Cobb, who we might think of as the epitome of a slap-hitter, had a season in which he walked 118 times.

So regardless of whether sportswriters, or Hall Voters, mangers, or even players thought walks were great or not, I think its perfectly fair to consider a player’s OBP when evaluating their hall candidacy, because all of the truly great hitters had monstrous OBPs, for whatever the reason. So it’s a fair comparison to make.

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No Sarah, the Sox pitchers did not perform better at Fenway, “the supposed” hitters haven. Look at the numbers you just quoted. The Sox pitchers had a 4.04 ERA on the road and a 4.13 ERA at Fenway. So they actually performed worse at Fenway. Paul is just saying they performed better at Fenway relative to the rest of the league, so stat this doesn’t disprove the notion that Fenway was a strong hitter’s park.

But this is a minor nitpick, because your main point about teams performing better at home is still somewhat supported by that stat. But adding the “supposed” in front of “hitters park” is clearly not warranted. Fenway was CLEARLY a hitter’s park during Rice’s era.

As for the “chart to the left” which confused you, I think the reason it shows why Rice might not have joined Gossage this year is that, EVEN THOUGH it shows that Rice was better than the average player outside of Fenway, are those really Hall of Fame worthy numbers? .277 avg? .330 OBP? Paul’s point is that maybe they are not, which is why later at the end of the graf he asks the question, “Would Jim Rice have been a Hall of Fame caliber player if he were not drafted by the Boston Red Sox?” I think that is an interesting question.

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“So here it is (left). The chart that may be the reason why Rice isn’t joining Gossage this year. ”

But to my mind, that chart just shows that Rice WAS a better hitter even away from the friendly confines! That’s why I was confused. But Paul’s comment (#3) has mostly alleviated my confusion.

I know Fenway is small and a “hitter’s park,” but the vast majority of players home-road splits seem to favor their home ballpark. So this whole “would he have been a Hall of Famer if he didn’t play where he did play” is a little silly to me; THAT’s the reason anti-Rice folks give for keeping him out of the Hall? THAT’S the best they got??

To wit, Paul, this bit from your post: “They [the Sox pitchers] were slightly below average (Sox – 4.04 ERA vs. MLB – 3.83 ERA) overall, but for one reason or other performed very well compared to the rest of the league at Fenway (Sox – 4.13 ERA vs. MLB – 4.55 ERA) so let’s keep that in mind moving forward.”

Even the Sox pitchers performed better at Fenway! At Fenway, the supposed hitters’ haven! I don’t think it takes a genius to know why: it was their home ballpark. Everyone likes to play at home. Plus, gotta say it, best fans in the game. Word.

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