Comments on: Hot Offseason Action: Detroit Tigers

By: Hot Offseason Action: Detroit Tigers | umpbump.com

Hot Offseason Action: Detroit Tigers | umpbump.com — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:18:31 +0000

[...] of the few to disagree however, was UmpBump’s own Sarah Green, who presciently pointed out that the Tigers had not done enough to shore up their weak pitching. Sure enough, the Tigers [...]

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By: Brian Sadecki

Brian Sadecki — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 05:25:14 +0000

Adding value to your team makes you a better team. If you see an opportunity to improve your team, you take it. You don’t turn it down because it’s not starting pitching.

Also, there was no starting pitching available for Detroit. They can’t make it appear out of thin air.

You have to make the playoffs before you win them.

Also, I think you adhere too strictly to the pitching/defense post-season formula. The game is still based on RS/RA differential so if you can tips the scales in your favor on either side of that, you take it.

Detroit had the best offseason by FAR and if they don’t score an A, nobody does.

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By: Sarah Green

Sarah Green — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 03:27:10 +0000

I’m concerned about this mash-mash-mash strategy the Tigers seem to be copying from the Yankees. Since New York’s pitching has gone downhill, they’ve continued to reach the playoffs but get bounced out of them before reaching the Series. I foresee similar things for Detroit if they continue on this path. Turn back, Motor City, before it’s too late!!!!!! Turn back!!!111!!!!1

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By: melissa

melissa — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 03:09:31 +0000

It was reported in Chicago by numerous sources that Florida turned down the White Sox offer for Cabrera due to the fact that they weren’t interested in Willis. I certainly didn’t concoct this theory. I believe Florida’s rationale was that they could get more for Willis when combined with Cabrera since there wasn’t as much interest in Willis alone. Willis did have a down year this past season which lowered his value. Cabrera was so valuable that he increased what they could get for Willis when combined with him. I would also caution you dismissing Renteria due to one poor season with the Red Sox. As you pointed out he bounced back the last two seasons and one poor season doesn’t mean he can’t play in the AL. He is an upgrade defensively for them over what they had last year. I do agree with you that pitching beats good hitting which is why I thought they should have upgraded their bullpen. I also believe that Detroit may just have a lineup that is powerful enough to bludgeon opponents over the course of the regular season. I suppose they will have to take it one game at a time. (Insert more tired cliches here.)

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By: Sarah Green

Sarah Green — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 02:22:27 +0000

I have to be honest Melissa, this is the first I have heard of the Marlins FO insisting that Willis and Cabrera had to go in a deal together. Nick and I had talked earlier about how stupid it was for the Marlins to get rid of them in the same deal—Nick even gave the Marlins an F because of it in his HOA! So I’m really not sure what is going on there. If no one wanted Willis, the Marlins just should have kept him—especially if the prevailing view is that he is such an “upgrade.” I think I explained above how I consider him a gamble—he’s got one solid year under his belt, and has struggled the last two years in the weaker league. (Just look at how Beckett struggled to adjust to the AL his first year out of Florida…and Dontrelle Willis is no Josh Beckett.) Renteria I consider a slight gamble as well, because of what I saw in Boston—-a player who struggled to hit AL pitching, and who couldn’t hack it in a mean, nasty town like Boston. Last time I checked, Detroit was not exactly a walk in the park either. Anyway, the teams I talked about in the first paragraph of the post (Detroit and Cleveland and Boston and New York) will be in a tight race to make the postseason. I think if Detroit had added a good SP instead of a good SS, they would be better positioned both to make the playoffs and to succeed there. But they obviously feel the best defense is a good offense, while I think good pitching beats good hitting. I guess it will be a war of cliches to see who wins!

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By: melissa

melissa — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:47:07 +0000

I consider Willis a throw in because Florida wouldn’t deal Cabrera to anyone that wouldn’t also take Willis. I also believe that Detroit only took Willis in the deal because they wanted Cabrera. I don’t think Dombrowski said I want Cabrera but I have to have Willis too. I would like to know how Willis and Renteria are considered gambles? They are both upgrades over what the Tigers had last season and should help give this team a better chance of winning this year. Miguel Cabrera is the best position player to change teams this off season, he’s one of the top 5 hitters in the game. It’s quite possible that Detroit had the best off season of any team in baseball. Consider the possibility that Detroit and Cleveland may both be better than New York and Boston, I’m sure that’s not easy for AL East devotees. The one area I think they could have upgraded but didn’t is their bullpen. I think that could be a bigger issue for them than the performance of Renteria or Willis. I also think they should consider putting Cabrera in left and leaving Inge at third. Jacque Jones is terrible.

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By: coley

coley — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:38:58 +0000

Nick, getting Sarah to “agree to disagree” is about as close as one gets to getting her to admit she was wrong. Congratulations.

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By: Sarah Green

Sarah Green — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 22:57:06 +0000

Nick, if you think my argument is irrational, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

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By: Nick Kapur

Nick Kapur — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 22:54:06 +0000

Sarah, I feel like your whole argument rests on your irrational hatred of Edgar Renteria for his one bad season in Boston, and your contention that the Tigers need to be harshly downgraded for their failure to land a second, near-ace starter in addition to the number 3 starter they already landed.

Edgar Renteria had the 3rd highest OPS for a shortstop in all of baseball last season, behind only Hanley Ramirez and Jimmy Rollins. He was an great pickup. Hernandez and Jurrjens were decent prospects, but the Tigers got a legitimate top-tier player at the most important position on the diamond.

As for the part about the Tigers’ failure to find a number two starter, you would need to explain exactly where this kind of player might have come from. Near-ace number two’s don’t exactly grow on trees, and the free agent market was awful this offseason. And you could pretty much say that every team in baseball could benefit from having a better number two starter. By your logic every team except the Diamondbacks and the Mariners should get a maximum grade of B- for failing to acquire an amazing number two starter this offseason, even if they added two of the best hitters in the game.

I feel like you are holding the Tigers to an impossibly high standard. They made themselves into easily one of the top three teams in all of baseball this offseason, and yet you are saying they wasted their chips on “unnecessary luxuries” and “big names.”

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By: Sarah Green

Sarah Green — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:54:50 +0000

With the buzz Willis was getting this offseason, why do you think the Marlins and Tigers considered him a throw-in?

At the risk of sounding a bit repetitive, they could have acquired a good pitcher instead of Renteria. The Tigers didn’t fail to reach the postseason in 2007 because they lacked for offense.

I realize what I’m saying goes against the received wisdom, and clearly the Tigers will have an awesome offense this year. I’m just not intimidated by the starting rotation they’ve put together, and I don’t think the Red Sox or Yankees will be, either.

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