Comments on: Detroit Tigers: Time for the curiosity slowdown http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/07/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/ In-your-face baseball commentary Sat, 07 Nov 2009 23:15:35 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Sarah Green http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/07/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/comment-page-2/#comment-55211 Sarah Green Tue, 08 Apr 2008 03:47:24 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/#comment-55211 No, Melissa, that's not what I'm getting at. That's not the point that is being made. Yes, I thought their offseason moves were overrated. And yes, people said I was crazy. (The Tigers were going to score ONE BILLION RUNS! They had Miguel Cabrera! They had---wait for it---EDGAR RENTERIA. What team has ever---EVER---lost with the mighty bat of Edgar Renteria?! Pitching, schmitching!) The baseball world went momentarily crazy for the Tigers, as if they were Miley Cyrus or sub-prime mortgages. So Detroit's lopsided start is a sort of market correction in the world of hype. Now everyone's all, "Oh...yeah. Right. Pitching. Right, the bullpen. Not going to score one billion runs. Miguel Cabrera not one-man World Series victory. Edgar Renteria not a golden god. Okay." The Tigers are still good. They're just not golden gods. I really don't think the Red Sox have anything to do with it. No, Melissa, that’s not what I’m getting at. That’s not the point that is being made. Yes, I thought their offseason moves were overrated. And yes, people said I was crazy. (The Tigers were going to score ONE BILLION RUNS! They had Miguel Cabrera! They had—wait for it—EDGAR RENTERIA. What team has ever—EVER—lost with the mighty bat of Edgar Renteria?! Pitching, schmitching!) The baseball world went momentarily crazy for the Tigers, as if they were Miley Cyrus or sub-prime mortgages. So Detroit’s lopsided start is a sort of market correction in the world of hype. Now everyone’s all, “Oh…yeah. Right. Pitching. Right, the bullpen. Not going to score one billion runs. Miguel Cabrera not one-man World Series victory. Edgar Renteria not a golden god. Okay.” The Tigers are still good. They’re just not golden gods. I really don’t think the Red Sox have anything to do with it.

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]]> By: melissa http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/07/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/comment-page-2/#comment-55210 melissa Mon, 07 Apr 2008 23:11:46 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/#comment-55210 I completely agree that injuries alone haven't caused Detroit's early struggles. I could be dead wrong but I don't think their pitchers are as bad as they have shown. I thought going into the season they needed more in their bullpen for sure and their pitching will determine whether or not they win this division. It just seemed to me like the point being made was that Detroit is off to 0-6 solely because of off-season moves. It seems kind of quick to me for anyone to say a bad start means bad off-season moves. I will ask again if the same standards are going to be applied to Epstein for counting on Schilling and other aging pitchers? I completely agree that injuries alone haven’t caused Detroit’s early struggles. I could be dead wrong but I don’t think their pitchers are as bad as they have shown. I thought going into the season they needed more in their bullpen for sure and their pitching will determine whether or not they win this division. It just seemed to me like the point being made was that Detroit is off to 0-6 solely because of off-season moves. It seems kind of quick to me for anyone to say a bad start means bad off-season moves. I will ask again if the same standards are going to be applied to Epstein for counting on Schilling and other aging pitchers?

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]]> By: Sarah Green http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/07/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/comment-page-2/#comment-55209 Sarah Green Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:47:30 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/#comment-55209 Ah, Paul. I see you bested me, this time around. Ah, Paul. I see you bested me, this time around.

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]]> By: Sarah Green http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/07/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/comment-page-2/#comment-55208 Sarah Green Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:45:39 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/#comment-55208 As I said above, the Tigers will be fine. They'll finish at least 2nd in their division. They could still make the playoffs. But people got a little too excited about their "big moves" over the winter and forgot they had no pitching. But I think you are giving false hope to Tigers fans by focusing on their injuries. Every team has injuries, first of all. Second, injuries to Gary Sheffield should surprise no one at this point in his career. And finally, even completely healthy Grandersons and Cabreras would have had a lot of work to do when their team is getting outscored 34 to 11. The fact is, if the Tigers are going to give up an average of five or six runs a game, even a lineup as potent as Detroit's is going to have a tough time making up for it. They'll have to a) never get injured and b) never slump. But injuries and slumps are like the death and taxes of baseball. Matt Taibbi had some good thoughts on this over at BP: "Sportswriters love slugging teams and love teams with big-ticket home run hitters in the middle of the lineup, which is the main reason why Detroit is getting so much love despite the fact that their pitching looks even worse than last year. Despite the fact that recent history is littered with early collapses in the form of big-slugging teams that went into the season with ignored relief staffs....[But] in choosing between a team that hits a lot and has no relievers and a team that hits some and relieves well, you always take the latter. Which means Cleveland is the obvious choice for the AL Central this year." As I said above, the Tigers will be fine. They’ll finish at least 2nd in their division. They could still make the playoffs. But people got a little too excited about their “big moves” over the winter and forgot they had no pitching. But I think you are giving false hope to Tigers fans by focusing on their injuries. Every team has injuries, first of all. Second, injuries to Gary Sheffield should surprise no one at this point in his career. And finally, even completely healthy Grandersons and Cabreras would have had a lot of work to do when their team is getting outscored 34 to 11. The fact is, if the Tigers are going to give up an average of five or six runs a game, even a lineup as potent as Detroit’s is going to have a tough time making up for it. They’ll have to a) never get injured and b) never slump. But injuries and slumps are like the death and taxes of baseball.

Matt Taibbi had some good thoughts on this over at BP: “Sportswriters love slugging teams and love teams with big-ticket home run hitters in the middle of the lineup, which is the main reason why Detroit is getting so much love despite the fact that their pitching looks even worse than last year. Despite the fact that recent history is littered with early collapses in the form of big-slugging teams that went into the season with ignored relief staffs….[But] in choosing between a team that hits a lot and has no relievers and a team that hits some and relieves well, you always take the latter. Which means Cleveland is the obvious choice for the AL Central this year.”

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]]> By: Paul Moro http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/07/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/comment-page-2/#comment-55207 Paul Moro Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:44:26 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/#comment-55207 Melissa, I'm with you to an extent. It's six games. There isn't much we can learn. But so far, what's been going wrong with the Tigers are exactly the things that people were talking about prior to the season (but it's happening to the Nth degree). Sheffield's age might be showing. His best asset has always been bat speed, which is a skill that can go away pretty suddenly. While adding Miguel Cabrera is huge offensively, there is the downside of losing Inge's glove. Also, while I think that Guillen will be a fine first baseman, the transition hasn't been smooth. Renteria isn't good enough to hit in the AL. Bullpen is a huge question mark without Zumaya and Rodney. And starting pitching isn't as deep as, say, Cleveland's. But it really has been a Murphy's Law type situation for Detroit so far, and things will start breaking for them soon. Although not even Curtis Granderson could have turned around that negative 24 run differential, he'll obviously help. Melissa, I’m with you to an extent. It’s six games. There isn’t much we can learn.

But so far, what’s been going wrong with the Tigers are exactly the things that people were talking about prior to the season (but it’s happening to the Nth degree). Sheffield’s age might be showing. His best asset has always been bat speed, which is a skill that can go away pretty suddenly. While adding Miguel Cabrera is huge offensively, there is the downside of losing Inge’s glove. Also, while I think that Guillen will be a fine first baseman, the transition hasn’t been smooth. Renteria isn’t good enough to hit in the AL. Bullpen is a huge question mark without Zumaya and Rodney. And starting pitching isn’t as deep as, say, Cleveland’s.

But it really has been a Murphy’s Law type situation for Detroit so far, and things will start breaking for them soon. Although not even Curtis Granderson could have turned around that negative 24 run differential, he’ll obviously help.

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]]> By: melissa http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/07/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/comment-page-1/#comment-55206 melissa Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:12:23 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/#comment-55206 So Sarah, it sounds like you think that the rest of the Tigers' season will be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. I'm not sure that early season struggles caused by injuries to key offensive players indicates their off-season moves were over-rated. Even the best off-season moves can't guarantee a team will be able to avoid injury and perform as expected. I think Dumbrowski made good moves but they haven't paid dividends just yet. Does the Red Sox poor start mean Theo doesn't deserve an A grade for his off-season moves? So Sarah, it sounds like you think that the rest of the Tigers’ season will be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. I’m not sure that early season struggles caused by injuries to key offensive players indicates their off-season moves were over-rated. Even the best off-season moves can’t guarantee a team will be able to avoid injury and perform as expected. I think Dumbrowski made good moves but they haven’t paid dividends just yet. Does the Red Sox poor start mean Theo doesn’t deserve an A grade for his off-season moves?

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]]> By: Sarah Green http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/07/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/comment-page-1/#comment-55205 Sarah Green Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:22:10 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/#comment-55205 Oh, the humanity! Oh, the humanity!

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]]> By: Nick Kapur http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/07/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/comment-page-1/#comment-55204 Nick Kapur Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:09:10 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/#comment-55204 I just going to go ahead and say that this 0-6 start is a "dirigible wreck" of Hindenbergian proportions. I just going to go ahead and say that this 0-6 start is a “dirigible wreck” of Hindenbergian proportions.

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]]> By: Sarah Green http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/07/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/comment-page-1/#comment-55203 Sarah Green Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:02:00 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/#comment-55203 I'm not sure which transportation metaphor is more apt, here. Clearly, I originally chose to go with the automotive metaphor---a pile-up, yes, but the wheels are still on (for now). On the other hand, perhaps Paul's more nautical metaphor works better. You could also properly describe the early going for Detroit as "a train wreck," though it is still too soon to dub it "a tailspin." Thoughts? I’m not sure which transportation metaphor is more apt, here. Clearly, I originally chose to go with the automotive metaphor—a pile-up, yes, but the wheels are still on (for now). On the other hand, perhaps Paul’s more nautical metaphor works better. You could also properly describe the early going for Detroit as “a train wreck,” though it is still too soon to dub it “a tailspin.”

Thoughts?

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]]> By: Paul Moro http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/07/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/comment-page-1/#comment-55202 Paul Moro Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:51:40 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/detroit-tigers-time-for-the-curiosity-slowdown/#comment-55202 I had the Tigers finishing second and I'm obviously not going to change that so soon. As Sarah points out, the rest of the division just isn't very good. They'll right the ship, but I still think the Indians are better. I had the Tigers finishing second and I’m obviously not going to change that so soon. As Sarah points out, the rest of the division just isn’t very good. They’ll right the ship, but I still think the Indians are better.

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