<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s the BABIP, stupid</title>
	<atom:link href="http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/17/its-the-babip-stupid/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/17/its-the-babip-stupid/</link>
	<description>In-your-face baseball commentary</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 23:15:35 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: halejon</title>
		<link>http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/17/its-the-babip-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-55367</link>
		<dc:creator>halejon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://umpbump.com/press/its-the-babip-stupid/#comment-55367</guid>
		<description>I think the BABIP argument is being overstated in these comments. &quot;BABIP rarely deviates far from .300&quot; is true for pitchers. It bounces around as a reflection of luck and no pitcher can control it from one year to the next. But good hitters (especially line drive hitters) do have an ability to sustain conistently higher BABIP&#039;s. Just look at Ichiro Suzuki:

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=1101&amp;position=OF&amp;page=7&amp;type=full

Who has never been below .300 in his life and was at almost .400 last year, as compared to, say, John McDonald (the worst hitter I can think of, being from Toronto):

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=395&amp;position=3BSS&amp;page=7&amp;type=full

It&#039;s true that the league average BABIP is consistent from one year to the next, but that&#039;s like saying that the league AVG is consistent. It doesn&#039;t mean that nobody has the ability to be consistently better or worse.

Of course that&#039;s true within reason. Something as way off as a BABIP of 0.063 is certainly a sign of at least some bad luck (as is going 4-43 if you&#039;re not legally blind).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the BABIP argument is being overstated in these comments. &#8220;BABIP rarely deviates far from .300&#8243; is true for pitchers. It bounces around as a reflection of luck and no pitcher can control it from one year to the next. But good hitters (especially line drive hitters) do have an ability to sustain conistently higher BABIP&#8217;s. Just look at Ichiro Suzuki:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=1101&amp;position=OF&amp;page=7&amp;type=full" rel="nofollow">http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=1101&amp;position=OF&amp;page=7&amp;type=full</a></p>
<p>Who has never been below .300 in his life and was at almost .400 last year, as compared to, say, John McDonald (the worst hitter I can think of, being from Toronto):</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=395&amp;position=3BSS&amp;page=7&amp;type=full" rel="nofollow">http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=395&amp;position=3BSS&amp;page=7&amp;type=full</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that the league average BABIP is consistent from one year to the next, but that&#8217;s like saying that the league AVG is consistent. It doesn&#8217;t mean that nobody has the ability to be consistently better or worse.</p>
<p>Of course that&#8217;s true within reason. Something as way off as a BABIP of 0.063 is certainly a sign of at least some bad luck (as is going 4-43 if you&#8217;re not legally blind).
<p align="right" style="font-size:80%;color:#CCCCCC;"><a href="http://umpbump.com/press/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=55367">REPORT COMMENT</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sarah Green</title>
		<link>http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/17/its-the-babip-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-55366</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://umpbump.com/press/its-the-babip-stupid/#comment-55366</guid>
		<description>Brian, in case you missed it, your nice little animated gif got a shoutout on the best Red Sox blog on the interwebs (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.outincenterfield.com/blog/2008/04/awesome_animated_gif_of_the_we.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Center Field&lt;/a&gt;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, in case you missed it, your nice little animated gif got a shoutout on the best Red Sox blog on the interwebs (<a href="http://www.outincenterfield.com/blog/2008/04/awesome_animated_gif_of_the_we.html" rel="nofollow">Center Field</a>).
<p align="right" style="font-size:80%;color:#CCCCCC;"><a href="http://umpbump.com/press/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=55366">REPORT COMMENT</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brian Sadecki</title>
		<link>http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/17/its-the-babip-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-55365</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Sadecki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://umpbump.com/press/its-the-babip-stupid/#comment-55365</guid>
		<description>Career norms are 38%INF/62%OUT

I don&#039;t know whether he has been hitting into the shift or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Career norms are 38%INF/62%OUT</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know whether he has been hitting into the shift or not.
<p align="right" style="font-size:80%;color:#CCCCCC;"><a href="http://umpbump.com/press/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=55365">REPORT COMMENT</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sarah Green</title>
		<link>http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/17/its-the-babip-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-55364</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://umpbump.com/press/its-the-babip-stupid/#comment-55364</guid>
		<description>That last stat is interesting. Do you know how many of those went into the shift? How does that percentage compare to his career norms? Just from watching, it seems like he&#039;s been able to go to the opposite field a little more this past week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That last stat is interesting. Do you know how many of those went into the shift? How does that percentage compare to his career norms? Just from watching, it seems like he&#8217;s been able to go to the opposite field a little more this past week.
<p align="right" style="font-size:80%;color:#CCCCCC;"><a href="http://umpbump.com/press/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=55364">REPORT COMMENT</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brian Sadecki</title>
		<link>http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/17/its-the-babip-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-55363</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Sadecki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 05:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://umpbump.com/press/its-the-babip-stupid/#comment-55363</guid>
		<description>Vaughn went from an elite hitter to a better-than-average hitter. Not &quot;extremely productive.&quot;

You can&#039;t throw away a &quot;scant&quot; four ground balls when he&#039;d only had 49 balls in play at that point. That&#039;s over 8% of his BIP.

How about the fact that 57% of his balls in play hadn&#039;t even left the infield? Does that account for anything?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vaughn went from an elite hitter to a better-than-average hitter. Not &#8220;extremely productive.&#8221;</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t throw away a &#8220;scant&#8221; four ground balls when he&#8217;d only had 49 balls in play at that point. That&#8217;s over 8% of his BIP.</p>
<p>How about the fact that 57% of his balls in play hadn&#8217;t even left the infield? Does that account for anything?
<p align="right" style="font-size:80%;color:#CCCCCC;"><a href="http://umpbump.com/press/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=55363">REPORT COMMENT</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sarah Green</title>
		<link>http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/17/its-the-babip-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-55362</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://umpbump.com/press/its-the-babip-stupid/#comment-55362</guid>
		<description>Brian, yes, but that lower BABIP is still higher than the mean. Vaughn was still productive---extremely productive. I just don&#039;t see how it relates to the case of David Ortiz&#039;s current slump at all. Sorry, I just completely disagree that Mo Vaughn is relevant here.



My point about the other stats is that we actually *have* looked at them. You might disagree with my conclusions, but your characterization of my methods is inaccurate---I certainly didn&#039;t go into this looking only at David&#039;s BABIP. I looked at a lot of other numbers, and the only number that looked like a preposterous outlier was, yes, his batting average on balls in play. Just because I ultimately decided those other numbers were enough within the norm that they alone couldn&#039;t account for a sub-.100 batting average doesn&#039;t mean I didn&#039;t give them a careful evaluation. I didn&#039;t throw them out because of small sample size---I threw them out because considering that the sample size is so small, a slightly higher GB% translates to a scant handful of batted balls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, yes, but that lower BABIP is still higher than the mean. Vaughn was still productive&#8212;extremely productive. I just don&#8217;t see how it relates to the case of David Ortiz&#8217;s current slump at all. Sorry, I just completely disagree that Mo Vaughn is relevant here.</p>
<p>My point about the other stats is that we actually *have* looked at them. You might disagree with my conclusions, but your characterization of my methods is inaccurate&#8212;I certainly didn&#8217;t go into this looking only at David&#8217;s BABIP. I looked at a lot of other numbers, and the only number that looked like a preposterous outlier was, yes, his batting average on balls in play. Just because I ultimately decided those other numbers were enough within the norm that they alone couldn&#8217;t account for a sub-.100 batting average doesn&#8217;t mean I didn&#8217;t give them a careful evaluation. I didn&#8217;t throw them out because of small sample size&#8212;I threw them out because considering that the sample size is so small, a slightly higher GB% translates to a scant handful of batted balls.
<p align="right" style="font-size:80%;color:#CCCCCC;"><a href="http://umpbump.com/press/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=55362">REPORT COMMENT</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brian Sadecki</title>
		<link>http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/17/its-the-babip-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-55361</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Sadecki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://umpbump.com/press/its-the-babip-stupid/#comment-55361</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve thrown out the examples of GB% and LD% due to small sample size.

The BABIP in Mo Vaughn&#039;s last four years (when his knee was becoming a serious problem) is a lot lower than in his prime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve thrown out the examples of GB% and LD% due to small sample size.</p>
<p>The BABIP in Mo Vaughn&#8217;s last four years (when his knee was becoming a serious problem) is a lot lower than in his prime.
<p align="right" style="font-size:80%;color:#CCCCCC;"><a href="http://umpbump.com/press/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=55361">REPORT COMMENT</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sarah Green</title>
		<link>http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/17/its-the-babip-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-55360</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://umpbump.com/press/its-the-babip-stupid/#comment-55360</guid>
		<description>Brian, I&#039;m not following your argument, here. You said that Mo&#039;s BABIP dropped because of the knee. But the only late-career below-average BABIP I see here is this 25-game streak at the end. Yeah, his knee was bad then. But a low BABIP over 25 games doesn&#039;t necessarily have any kind of causal relationship with a bad knee. I&#039;m not sure we can &quot;work backwards&quot; from that example.



My argument is that Papi&#039;s crappy BABIP is a fluke due to small sample size. So on my end, the small sample size is actually working *with* my argument, not against it. You say that people misuse BABIP as a be-all-end-all stat, but I don&#039;t think anyone has done that in this particular discussion. We&#039;ve talked about GB%, LD%, K rate, BB rate, IF/F%....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, I&#8217;m not following your argument, here. You said that Mo&#8217;s BABIP dropped because of the knee. But the only late-career below-average BABIP I see here is this 25-game streak at the end. Yeah, his knee was bad then. But a low BABIP over 25 games doesn&#8217;t necessarily have any kind of causal relationship with a bad knee. I&#8217;m not sure we can &#8220;work backwards&#8221; from that example.</p>
<p>My argument is that Papi&#8217;s crappy BABIP is a fluke due to small sample size. So on my end, the small sample size is actually working *with* my argument, not against it. You say that people misuse BABIP as a be-all-end-all stat, but I don&#8217;t think anyone has done that in this particular discussion. We&#8217;ve talked about GB%, LD%, K rate, BB rate, IF/F%&#8230;.
<p align="right" style="font-size:80%;color:#CCCCCC;"><a href="http://umpbump.com/press/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=55360">REPORT COMMENT</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brian Sadecki</title>
		<link>http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/17/its-the-babip-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-55359</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Sadecki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:14:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://umpbump.com/press/its-the-babip-stupid/#comment-55359</guid>
		<description>Can we be clear on one thing? I&#039;m using Mo Vaughn as an example for two reasons:

1) He&#039;s a known case that we can work backwards from. We know that his knee issues affected his play later in his career. So we can look at his stats and see a pattern for that kind of hitter.

2) He&#039;s very similar to David Ortiz.


If we&#039;re going to argue small sample size here then there can&#039;t be a double standard. If I can&#039;t include Mo Vaugn&#039;s 79 ABs in a list of his BABIP, then Sarah can&#039;t write an article analyzing a player&#039;s BABIP in mid-April. We can&#039;t have it both ways.

My general point is that people misuse BABIP as an end-all-be-all stat. Under-290=Unlucky Over-300=Lucky. Clearly not. If injury is a possibility, you have to look at that too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can we be clear on one thing? I&#8217;m using Mo Vaughn as an example for two reasons:</p>
<p>1) He&#8217;s a known case that we can work backwards from. We know that his knee issues affected his play later in his career. So we can look at his stats and see a pattern for that kind of hitter.</p>
<p>2) He&#8217;s very similar to David Ortiz.</p>
<p>If we&#8217;re going to argue small sample size here then there can&#8217;t be a double standard. If I can&#8217;t include Mo Vaugn&#8217;s 79 ABs in a list of his BABIP, then Sarah can&#8217;t write an article analyzing a player&#8217;s BABIP in mid-April. We can&#8217;t have it both ways.</p>
<p>My general point is that people misuse BABIP as an end-all-be-all stat. Under-290=Unlucky Over-300=Lucky. Clearly not. If injury is a possibility, you have to look at that too.
<p align="right" style="font-size:80%;color:#CCCCCC;"><a href="http://umpbump.com/press/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=55359">REPORT COMMENT</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mattymatty</title>
		<link>http://umpbump.com/press/2008/04/17/its-the-babip-stupid/comment-page-2/#comment-55357</link>
		<dc:creator>mattymatty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://umpbump.com/press/its-the-babip-stupid/#comment-55357</guid>
		<description>Nick - you are correct.  Obviously there is a sample size issue in addition to my comments above, but I didn&#039;t address that because it was addressed previously by other commenters.

As for the specifics, Ortiz has (through yesterday&#039;s game) come to the plate 81 times.  If he had a line drive percentage of say 17% (what he had last season) then he would have roughly 6 more line drives, or about 4.5 more hits.

So, yeah, his low BABIP is a function partly of luck, partly line drive percentage, and partly a sample size issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick &#8211; you are correct.  Obviously there is a sample size issue in addition to my comments above, but I didn&#8217;t address that because it was addressed previously by other commenters.</p>
<p>As for the specifics, Ortiz has (through yesterday&#8217;s game) come to the plate 81 times.  If he had a line drive percentage of say 17% (what he had last season) then he would have roughly 6 more line drives, or about 4.5 more hits.</p>
<p>So, yeah, his low BABIP is a function partly of luck, partly line drive percentage, and partly a sample size issue.
<p align="right" style="font-size:80%;color:#CCCCCC;"><a href="http://umpbump.com/press/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=55357">REPORT COMMENT</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
