Comments on: Nope, Still Not Friday Reading http://umpbump.com/press/2008/10/02/nope-still-not-friday-reading/ In-your-face baseball commentary Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:44:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: kensai http://umpbump.com/press/2008/10/02/nope-still-not-friday-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-56902 kensai Sun, 05 Oct 2008 00:17:21 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=3142#comment-56902 I understand Coley's point, it's just that i've become somewhat defensive since many have since painted Colletti as a genius since the Manny deal. Same one that McCourt apparently did by himself. :o And just for reference, Colletti gave up Carlos Santana in the Blake deal. He's behind Wieters as the top catching prospect, but he's at least top 5 if not 3. And Meloan was a top 5 prospect in the Dodgers system, albeit regressing. I understand Coley’s point, it’s just that i’ve become somewhat defensive since many have since painted Colletti as a genius since the Manny deal. Same one that McCourt apparently did by himself. :o

And just for reference, Colletti gave up Carlos Santana in the Blake deal. He’s behind Wieters as the top catching prospect, but he’s at least top 5 if not 3. And Meloan was a top 5 prospect in the Dodgers system, albeit regressing.

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]]> By: Sarah Green http://umpbump.com/press/2008/10/02/nope-still-not-friday-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-56889 Sarah Green Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:10:20 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=3142#comment-56889 My favorite description of Ned was in last year's Baseball Prospectus---they referred to his "drunk-with-a-gun act." Even a drunk with a gun can hit the target every now and then...but most of the time, they hit everything else. My favorite description of Ned was in last year’s Baseball Prospectus—they referred to his “drunk-with-a-gun act.” Even a drunk with a gun can hit the target every now and then…but most of the time, they hit everything else.

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]]> By: Coley Ward http://umpbump.com/press/2008/10/02/nope-still-not-friday-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-56888 Coley Ward Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:32:40 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=3142#comment-56888 So let me get this straight. Ned Coletti is not a good GM? Is that what you're trying to tell me? So let me get this straight. Ned Coletti is not a good GM? Is that what you’re trying to tell me?

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]]> By: Nick Kapur http://umpbump.com/press/2008/10/02/nope-still-not-friday-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-56887 Nick Kapur Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:35:38 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=3142#comment-56887 Coley, as Kensai alludes, people who have followed Colletti's dealings on a daily basis can probably write you descriptions of his bad deals which would put Tolstoy to shame. But if you are looking for something more consice, there is a reasonably good breakdown of the major flaws <a href="http://www.bucsdugout.com/2008/4/21/447053/worst-gm-poll-j-p-ricciard" rel="nofollow">over at Bucs Dugout...</a> It's true that Colletti has made a handful of good deals, but that is bound to happen when you are as active a GM as Ned is. But 95% of everything he has done has been stupid. Beyond just signings, there has been some pretty egregious shit, like his utterly inexplicable decision not to offer Greg Maddux arbitration after the last time he left as a free agent, losing the Dodgers 2 draft picks. This has still to this day never been explained. It's just a disturbing pattern of blocking youth, not signing talent, trading away value for not-value, and constantly making statements to the press which make it clear that he doesn't look at stats at all. Also, I completely disagree with the assertion you have now made twice that Colletti "gave up almost nothing" in his trades this year. Colletti gave up premium talent for Blake and Ramirez, and these guys are just two month rentals. The Blake trade was particularly egregious, since first of all Casey Blake is not a good player, and second of all, we gave up our best relief prospect Jon Meloan (who had struck out 335 in 262 career minor league innings), as well as our no. 1 catching prospect Carlos Santana, who had had a huge breakout season. That was premium talent right there for a two-month rental of a 36 year old who was the worst defensive everyday third baseman in the American Aeague and wasn't even a better hitter than our existing options. The Manny trade was also not "nothing" since we gave up our no. 1 positional prospect in Andy LaRoche. Although the way Manny has played I'm fine with that trade, but still, it's not "almost nothing." I think it's also worth mentioning that Colletti also gave up some decent value to get two months of Maddux, another rental who we also didn't need, and who did nothing for us that our other 5th starter options couldn't have done as well or better, and who is not even starting in the playoffs. See <a href="http://www.firenedcollettinow.com/2008/09/watt-and-perez-to-padres-as-part-of.html" rel="nofollow">this post</a> for more on that. Coley, as Kensai alludes, people who have followed Colletti’s dealings on a daily basis can probably write you descriptions of his bad deals which would put Tolstoy to shame. But if you are looking for something more consice, there is a reasonably good breakdown of the major flaws over at Bucs Dugout…

It’s true that Colletti has made a handful of good deals, but that is bound to happen when you are as active a GM as Ned is. But 95% of everything he has done has been stupid. Beyond just signings, there has been some pretty egregious shit, like his utterly inexplicable decision not to offer Greg Maddux arbitration after the last time he left as a free agent, losing the Dodgers 2 draft picks. This has still to this day never been explained.

It’s just a disturbing pattern of blocking youth, not signing talent, trading away value for not-value, and constantly making statements to the press which make it clear that he doesn’t look at stats at all.

Also, I completely disagree with the assertion you have now made twice that Colletti “gave up almost nothing” in his trades this year. Colletti gave up premium talent for Blake and Ramirez, and these guys are just two month rentals. The Blake trade was particularly egregious, since first of all Casey Blake is not a good player, and second of all, we gave up our best relief prospect Jon Meloan (who had struck out 335 in 262 career minor league innings), as well as our no. 1 catching prospect Carlos Santana, who had had a huge breakout season. That was premium talent right there for a two-month rental of a 36 year old who was the worst defensive everyday third baseman in the American Aeague and wasn’t even a better hitter than our existing options.

The Manny trade was also not “nothing” since we gave up our no. 1 positional prospect in Andy LaRoche. Although the way Manny has played I’m fine with that trade, but still, it’s not “almost nothing.”

I think it’s also worth mentioning that Colletti also gave up some decent value to get two months of Maddux, another rental who we also didn’t need, and who did nothing for us that our other 5th starter options couldn’t have done as well or better, and who is not even starting in the playoffs. See this post for more on that.

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]]> By: coley http://umpbump.com/press/2008/10/02/nope-still-not-friday-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-56886 coley Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:50:53 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=3142#comment-56886 Whoah, so maybe I was a little too quick to praise Coletti, but it does seem like he's been on a roll of late. Even if Manny and Blake don't resign with the team, the Dodgers gave up almost nothing to get them. Those were two of the best deadline deals in history, if you ask me. I've always used the Pierre and Jones signings as evidence that Coletti was an idiot. But now that we have reason to believe that the Jones signing wasn't Coletti's idea, I'm feeling a little forgiving. But as Nick and Kensai point out, there have been a lot of smaller stupid things Coletti has done, too. Whoah, so maybe I was a little too quick to praise Coletti, but it does seem like he’s been on a roll of late. Even if Manny and Blake don’t resign with the team, the Dodgers gave up almost nothing to get them. Those were two of the best deadline deals in history, if you ask me.

I’ve always used the Pierre and Jones signings as evidence that Coletti was an idiot. But now that we have reason to believe that the Jones signing wasn’t Coletti’s idea, I’m feeling a little forgiving. But as Nick and Kensai point out, there have been a lot of smaller stupid things Coletti has done, too.

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]]> By: kensai http://umpbump.com/press/2008/10/02/nope-still-not-friday-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-56885 kensai Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:33:20 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=3142#comment-56885 Sorry I didn't finish that section on Colletti yet, Coley. I'm getting to it. That doesn't even really scratch the surface of why he's a bad decision maker. Also, just because Olney says Jones was McCourt's decision doesn't make it true. If he made all those bad signings, why would I trust that Colletti didn't sign Jones? Jones sounds exactly like the type of guy he has wet dreams about. Regardless, there's no reason to explain Pierre, Mueller, Schmidt, Wolf, resigning Garciaparra, Tomko, and Loaiza. Not good enough, then how about trading for Julio Lugo, Elmer Dessens, Mark Hendrickson (see that Navarro guy in the playoffs? LOL), Lance Carter, Danys Baez, Greg Maddux (2nd time around, ugh) and Mark Sweeney. Even Furcal had a terrible 2007 and was injured all of 2008. So one good year for 39 million, and now the Dodgers have to pay him again or he walks. Sweet. His two "good" decisions are yet to be seen. If the Dodgers lose in the playoffs, or Manny/Blake leave, or Carlos Santana becomes the next Victor Martinez in Cleveland, what do people say then? His good trades are contingent on the Dodgers playoff success this year. Otherwise, they just dumped prospects again for nothing. Every GM has bad decisions, true. The litmus test for me is that I can name the amount of good decisions Colletti has made on one hand, while I could write essays on his poor ones. I fully wish the Dodgers win the World Series this year, I also hope Colletti becomes the first GM fired after winning a World Series, and is replaced by one of the people responsible for his success, White or Ng. Sorry I didn’t finish that section on Colletti yet, Coley. I’m getting to it.
That doesn’t even really scratch the surface of why he’s a bad decision maker.

Also, just because Olney says Jones was McCourt’s decision doesn’t make it true. If he made all those bad signings, why would I trust that Colletti didn’t sign Jones? Jones sounds exactly like the type of guy he has wet dreams about.

Regardless, there’s no reason to explain Pierre, Mueller, Schmidt, Wolf, resigning Garciaparra, Tomko, and Loaiza.

Not good enough, then how about trading for Julio Lugo, Elmer Dessens, Mark Hendrickson (see that Navarro guy in the playoffs? LOL), Lance Carter, Danys Baez, Greg Maddux (2nd time around, ugh) and Mark Sweeney.

Even Furcal had a terrible 2007 and was injured all of 2008. So one good year for 39 million, and now the Dodgers have to pay him again or he walks. Sweet.

His two “good” decisions are yet to be seen. If the Dodgers lose in the playoffs, or Manny/Blake leave, or Carlos Santana becomes the next Victor Martinez in Cleveland, what do people say then? His good trades are contingent on the Dodgers playoff success this year. Otherwise, they just dumped prospects again for nothing.

Every GM has bad decisions, true. The litmus test for me is that I can name the amount of good decisions Colletti has made on one hand, while I could write essays on his poor ones.

I fully wish the Dodgers win the World Series this year, I also hope Colletti becomes the first GM fired after winning a World Series, and is replaced by one of the people responsible for his success, White or Ng.

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]]> By: Paul Moro http://umpbump.com/press/2008/10/02/nope-still-not-friday-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-56883 Paul Moro Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:26:30 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=3142#comment-56883 Yoooouuuuu betcha, doggone it! I spent the debate counting how many folksy-isms Palin can dish out. When Palin asked Biden "Can I call ya Joooeee?" in the first five seconds, I knew my math skills were going to be tested. Yoooouuuuu betcha, doggone it!

I spent the debate counting how many folksy-isms Palin can dish out. When Palin asked Biden “Can I call ya Joooeee?” in the first five seconds, I knew my math skills were going to be tested.

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]]> By: melissa http://umpbump.com/press/2008/10/02/nope-still-not-friday-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-56882 melissa Fri, 03 Oct 2008 05:28:08 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=3142#comment-56882 HaHa, Sarah. I was thinking the same thing. I couldn't wait for Nick to see that Colletti nonsense. Ng really doesn't deserve to be compared to that, Ng actually has some qualifications for the position she aspires to. HaHa, Sarah. I was thinking the same thing. I couldn’t wait for Nick to see that Colletti nonsense.
Ng really doesn’t deserve to be compared to that, Ng actually has some qualifications for the position she aspires to.

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]]> By: Sarah Green http://umpbump.com/press/2008/10/02/nope-still-not-friday-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-56881 Sarah Green Fri, 03 Oct 2008 03:32:57 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=3142#comment-56881 I knew that if I just waited for the sun to rise in Japan, Nick would soon appear here with a rebuttal. No Colletti-praising can happen on this one-horse blog without Kapur settin' it aright! I seem to be talking like a sheriff after listening to Sarah Palin tonight. Let's just say that the Dodgers FO needs some fixin' and it needs some reformin' and that's what a mavericky maverick like Ng would do. I knew that if I just waited for the sun to rise in Japan, Nick would soon appear here with a rebuttal. No Colletti-praising can happen on this one-horse blog without Kapur settin’ it aright!

I seem to be talking like a sheriff after listening to Sarah Palin tonight. Let’s just say that the Dodgers FO needs some fixin’ and it needs some reformin’ and that’s what a mavericky maverick like Ng would do.

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]]> By: Nick Kapur http://umpbump.com/press/2008/10/02/nope-still-not-friday-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-56880 Nick Kapur Fri, 03 Oct 2008 02:15:17 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=3142#comment-56880 Coley, please don't get me started on Colletti. Other than Manny, everything good on that team is the young players Colletti had nothing to do with, and did everything in his power to block with terrible overpriced veterans. Those players are only playing because those overpriced veterans were so terrible or got hurt. Matt Kemp. James Loney. Russell Martin. Andre Ethier. Chad Billingsley. Those guys - Colletti always tried his hardest to block them. And then there is the fact that when all the smart GMs are signing their good young players, like Longoria and Tulo to long term deals, Colletti has yet to sign a *single one* of his young stars, and just keeps letting them get better and better and more expensive. In a few years all of the young talent the Dodgers have will be gone. Coley, please don’t get me started on Colletti. Other than Manny, everything good on that team is the young players Colletti had nothing to do with, and did everything in his power to block with terrible overpriced veterans. Those players are only playing because those overpriced veterans were so terrible or got hurt. Matt Kemp. James Loney. Russell Martin. Andre Ethier. Chad Billingsley. Those guys – Colletti always tried his hardest to block them. And then there is the fact that when all the smart GMs are signing their good young players, like Longoria and Tulo to long term deals, Colletti has yet to sign a *single one* of his young stars, and just keeps letting them get better and better and more expensive. In a few years all of the young talent the Dodgers have will be gone.

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