Comments on: Salary Caps Are A Bad Idea http://umpbump.com/press/2008/12/26/salary-caps-are-a-bad-idea/ In-your-face baseball commentary Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:48:13 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Sarah Green http://umpbump.com/press/2008/12/26/salary-caps-are-a-bad-idea/comment-page-2/#comment-58065 Sarah Green Mon, 12 Jan 2009 02:12:55 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=4207#comment-58065 Hi Jesse. Funny that you should mention Bill Gates. While he did make a lot of money (despite famously dropping out of Harvard) Microsoft is now under fire from Google -- a company that started out as very "small market" about 10 years ago. You say that the arguments against salary caps are easily countered, but that Yankee fans (and presumably, fans in other "big market" areas) would switch their arguments if a richer owner took over a competitor. I could just as easily claim that you would change your argument if your team's owner started spending more money. As Karl pointed out, even teams called "small market" teams operate in fairly large markets. I mean, Florida is pretty damn big, yet both Florida teams are considered small-market clubs. Meanwhile, Boston is not even one of the 20-largets cities in the US, and yet all of New England supports the Red Sox enough to grant them a huge revenue stream. Why? Because we love baseball. And we loved it even through 86 years of futility. Hi Jesse. Funny that you should mention Bill Gates. While he did make a lot of money (despite famously dropping out of Harvard) Microsoft is now under fire from Google — a company that started out as very “small market” about 10 years ago. You say that the arguments against salary caps are easily countered, but that Yankee fans (and presumably, fans in other “big market” areas) would switch their arguments if a richer owner took over a competitor. I could just as easily claim that you would change your argument if your team’s owner started spending more money.

As Karl pointed out, even teams called “small market” teams operate in fairly large markets. I mean, Florida is pretty damn big, yet both Florida teams are considered small-market clubs. Meanwhile, Boston is not even one of the 20-largets cities in the US, and yet all of New England supports the Red Sox enough to grant them a huge revenue stream. Why? Because we love baseball. And we loved it even through 86 years of futility.

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]]> By: Jesse http://umpbump.com/press/2008/12/26/salary-caps-are-a-bad-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-58061 Jesse Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:29:59 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=4207#comment-58061 We can always complicate the salary cap argument by saying the Nationals are poorly run, a cap is anti-American or the "look at the Twins" argument. Every one of those points can easily be countered, but that only complicates things further. However, its not that complicated. I think everyone would agree that having more payroll than anyone else is an advantage on the field. That perpetual advantage is unfair - its as simple as that. Advantages should be born of superior scouting, evaluation of talent, on the field managing and the play of the players. These advantages should not come from the balance sheets of their corporate owners or from the TV networks allowed by their geography. While 99% of Yankee fans think a cap is not needed now, if Bill Gates decided to devote his wealth to a baseball team those fans' opinions would quickly change. Extra payroll is not just about getting the next big free agent, but its the ability to recover from mistakes (Pavano, Brown), spend in a pinch (Clemens) and outspend others by so much the player can't say no (CC). Extra payroll gives your fans off-season excitement of the hot stove league, and every reason to think your team will compete next season. Baseball is broken. Its not destitute, but its broken. Like the boiling frog, MLB is slowly sliding into obscurity in smaller markets throughout the country. Check out WWW.BANBASEBALL.COM for salary cap news and comments. Its a pro baseball site that just wants to be sure baseball stays around. We can always complicate the salary cap argument by saying the Nationals are poorly run, a cap is anti-American or the “look at the Twins” argument. Every one of those points can easily be countered, but that only complicates things further.

However, its not that complicated. I think everyone would agree that having more payroll than anyone else is an advantage on the field. That perpetual advantage is unfair – its as simple as that.

Advantages should be born of superior scouting, evaluation of talent, on the field managing and the play of the players. These advantages should not come from the balance sheets of their corporate owners or from the TV networks allowed by their geography. While 99% of Yankee fans think a cap is not needed now, if Bill Gates decided to devote his wealth to a baseball team those fans’ opinions would quickly change.

Extra payroll is not just about getting the next big free agent, but its the ability to recover from mistakes (Pavano, Brown), spend in a pinch (Clemens) and outspend others by so much the player can’t say no (CC). Extra payroll gives your fans off-season excitement of the hot stove league, and every reason to think your team will compete next season.

Baseball is broken. Its not destitute, but its broken. Like the boiling frog, MLB is slowly sliding into obscurity in smaller markets throughout the country.

Check out http://WWW.BANBASEBALL.COM for salary cap news and comments. Its a pro baseball site that just wants to be sure baseball stays around.

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]]> By: Karl http://umpbump.com/press/2008/12/26/salary-caps-are-a-bad-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-58051 Karl Sun, 11 Jan 2009 00:17:59 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=4207#comment-58051 To Brad: Getting beyond whether the Mets or Yankees would "allow" a third team, I'm curious as to why you think that would change anything? You know NY used to have three teams before the 60s, right? Further, you mention NYC is the biggest market in the U.S. This is true. But then a reader like you might turn around and refer to a place like Florida as a small market. I don't know by what standards you are determining market size, but you should know most of the teams labeled as "small market" actually operate in fairly big markets. To Brad: Getting beyond whether the Mets or Yankees would “allow” a third team, I’m curious as to why you think that would change anything? You know NY used to have three teams before the 60s, right?

Further, you mention NYC is the biggest market in the U.S. This is true. But then a reader like you might turn around and refer to a place like Florida as a small market. I don’t know by what standards you are determining market size, but you should know most of the teams labeled as “small market” actually operate in fairly big markets.

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]]> By: Brad http://umpbump.com/press/2008/12/26/salary-caps-are-a-bad-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-58048 Brad Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:01:19 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=4207#comment-58048 The Yankees and Mets can afford to pay out more in salary than other teams because they split the biggest baseball market in the world. To level the playing field, a third team in NYC is an answer. Would the Mets and Yankees allow it? Of course not. They're all for free enterprise, but only if it's free for them, and them alone. The Yankees and Mets can afford to pay out more in salary than other teams because they split the biggest baseball market in the world. To level the playing field, a third team in NYC is an answer. Would the Mets and Yankees allow it? Of course not. They’re all for free enterprise, but only if it’s free for them, and them alone.

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]]> By: Detroit Michael http://umpbump.com/press/2008/12/26/salary-caps-are-a-bad-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-58047 Detroit Michael Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:37:23 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=4207#comment-58047 The Yankees didn't report a $47.3M loss in 2007 and then raised payroll. They have not publicly reported their financials ever that I know of. Perhaps you are picking up the Fortune estimates, but those exclude their affiliated ownership of the YES Network. Given that the Yankees' ownership is rational, they wouldn't raise payroll if they were losing tons of money. Given that teams' resale value rises over time, that's even better evidence that they are not losing money. The Yankees didn’t report a $47.3M loss in 2007 and then raised payroll. They have not publicly reported their financials ever that I know of. Perhaps you are picking up the Fortune estimates, but those exclude their affiliated ownership of the YES Network. Given that the Yankees’ ownership is rational, they wouldn’t raise payroll if they were losing tons of money. Given that teams’ resale value rises over time, that’s even better evidence that they are not losing money.

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]]> By: Paul Moro http://umpbump.com/press/2008/12/26/salary-caps-are-a-bad-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-58040 Paul Moro Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:05:32 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=4207#comment-58040 Why does BP do everything better than me? Oh wait. That's right. They're smart. Why does BP do everything better than me? Oh wait. That’s right. They’re smart.

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]]> By: kensai http://umpbump.com/press/2008/12/26/salary-caps-are-a-bad-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-58039 kensai Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:10:31 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=4207#comment-58039 http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8409 http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8409

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]]> By: Coley Ward http://umpbump.com/press/2008/12/26/salary-caps-are-a-bad-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-58037 Coley Ward Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:03:30 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=4207#comment-58037 Paul says fans want parity and affordability, but I think they want one more thing: familiarity. Look at the Marlins. They've won two World Series titles. They were competitive in 2008 and will be legit contenders in 2009. As for affordability, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess Marlins tickets are some of the cheapest in baseball. Yet the fans don't show up. Why? Ownership will tell you it's because the team plays in a crappy stadium, but I think it's because every time a Marlins player makes an all-star team, they trade him. Maybe that's what you've gotta do as a small market team to compete with the big market teams. But it obviously doesn't do much to encourage fan loyalty. Paul says fans want parity and affordability, but I think they want one more thing: familiarity. Look at the Marlins. They’ve won two World Series titles. They were competitive in 2008 and will be legit contenders in 2009. As for affordability, I’m going to go out on a limb and guess Marlins tickets are some of the cheapest in baseball. Yet the fans don’t show up. Why? Ownership will tell you it’s because the team plays in a crappy stadium, but I think it’s because every time a Marlins player makes an all-star team, they trade him. Maybe that’s what you’ve gotta do as a small market team to compete with the big market teams. But it obviously doesn’t do much to encourage fan loyalty.

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]]> By: Kevin http://umpbump.com/press/2008/12/26/salary-caps-are-a-bad-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-58035 Kevin Fri, 09 Jan 2009 20:47:34 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=4207#comment-58035 A couple other reasons I can add: -Teams (okay, the Yankees) have money committed to long-term contracts, and it's really not fair or logical to establish a cap until those contracts expire. That means a salary cap couldn't go into effect until 2018 (when A-Rod's deal will finally be done). -I really don't think the arbitration system would work with a cap...teams would need to know what they're paying a player next year (or at least a ballpark figure) to be able to manage their cap. -I really don't see any reason for MLB to step in and demand a salary cap, revenue-wise. The most popular (and, I assume, richest) league in the world is the EPL, which is the worst example of parity that you could come up with (only four teams ever have a chance at the title). http://blogs.timesunion.com/whitaker/?p=463 A couple other reasons I can add:

-Teams (okay, the Yankees) have money committed to long-term contracts, and it’s really not fair or logical to establish a cap until those contracts expire. That means a salary cap couldn’t go into effect until 2018 (when A-Rod’s deal will finally be done).

-I really don’t think the arbitration system would work with a cap…teams would need to know what they’re paying a player next year (or at least a ballpark figure) to be able to manage their cap.

-I really don’t see any reason for MLB to step in and demand a salary cap, revenue-wise. The most popular (and, I assume, richest) league in the world is the EPL, which is the worst example of parity that you could come up with (only four teams ever have a chance at the title).

http://blogs.timesunion.com/whitaker/?p=463

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]]> By: Karl http://umpbump.com/press/2008/12/26/salary-caps-are-a-bad-idea/comment-page-1/#comment-58034 Karl Fri, 09 Jan 2009 19:56:44 +0000 http://umpbump.com/press/?p=4207#comment-58034 "The Marlins will still central fund money in any system you put them in." That should be, they will STEAL central fund money in any system. “The Marlins will still central fund money in any system you put them in.”

That should be, they will STEAL central fund money in any system.

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