The All-Time “Ned Colletti Gave Up on Them” Team
Ned Colletti has only been a general manager since 2006, but now that he has designated Delwyn Young for assignment, you can now officially field an entire major-league starting lineup out of the players he has given up on and traded away in just three years.
Apparently, Colletti only gave up on Young, a 26-year-old, major league ready 2B/outfielder with a career .303/.363/.514 minor league line, just so he can call up non-roster futility infielder Juan Castro instead of actually-on-the-roster shortstop Chin-Lung Hu (who is also better than Castro in every way).
Look I’m not saying this team I’ve crafted below is better than the team the Dodgers currently have. Obviously, it’s not. But it’s worth pointing out just how much talent Ned Colletti has given up on and traded away for basically no return in just slightly over three years on the job.
The All Ned-Colletti-Gave-Up-On-Them Team:
C Dioner Navarro - Traded to the Rays along with P Jae Weong Seo and OF Justin Ruggiano for C Toby Hall and P Mark Hendrickson. Now the starting catcher for the Rays. Hit .295 last season and is still just 25 years old.
1B Willy Aybar - Traded to the Braves along with P Danys Baez for Wilson Betemit. Became the first man off the bench for the AL Champion Rays last season, often getting starts at 3B, 1B, and DH.
2B Delwyn Young – Designated for assignment and set to be traded because Ned Colletti and Joe Torre like journeyman Juan Castro off the bench more than prospect Chin-Lung Hu, and apparently are willing to sacrifice a perfectly good player for this.
3B Wilson Betemit – Traded to the Yankees for Scott Proctor. Currently a bench player for the White Sox.
SS Cesar Izturis - Traded to the Cubs in 2006 for two months of Greg Maddux. Currently the starting shortstop for the Baltimore Orioles. Amazingly, Ned Colletti somehow failed to even offer arbitration to Maddux that offseason, in a decision which has still never been explained, so the Dodgers got nothing when he then signed with the Padres. This decision looked even sillier when the Dodgers traded for Maddux *again* in 2008.
LF Milton Bradley - Traded to the A’s along with infielder Antonio Perez for Andre Ethier. Currently the starting rightfielder for the Cubs.
CF Cody Ross - Traded to the Reds for P Ben Kozlowski. Currently the starting centerfielder for the Marlins
RF Jayson Werth - Colletti allowed Werth to walk as a free agent after the 2006 season when he could have been resigned for a song. Werth signed with the Phillies for $850,000 and helped lead them to a World Series championship in 2008. Werth is currently the Phillies starting rightfielder.
SP Edwin Jackson - Traded along with P Chuck Tiffany for relievers Danys Baez and Lance Carter. Currently the no. 3 starter on the Detroit Tigers.
Amazingly, out of all the players Colletti got in return when he traded these players away, only Andre Ethier is still with the Dodgers, and only Ethier was even really worth much of anything to the team. Granted, Ethier is a pretty good player, but outside of that Bradley trade, Colletti’s trading record shows that he has kindly stocked the lineups, benches, and minor league systems of his opponents while basically getting nothing in return and then having to fill all those holes he created with expensive free agents.
April 15th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
You didn’t even get to mention Carlos Santana, who Coletti traded to the Indians so the Dodgers wouldn’t have to pay Casey Blake’s salary. Santana is now Cleveland’s top prospect and the third best catching prospect in baseball, behind Matt Wieters and Buster Posey.
REPORT COMMENT
April 15th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
You forgot to mention that Navarro was an all-star last year, and that Bradley posted the AL’s highest OBP last year, out of players with enough at-bats to qualify.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 9:13 am
So what? None of these players is an upgrade over any of the guys the Dodgers currently start (Jackson may be the one exception). Can you really fault the Bradley trade? Yeah, Navarro had a good season last year – too bad the Dodgers already have someone named Russell Martin behind the plate.
Sure, your point is valid that Colletti has given up some talent without much to show for it. But he’s also acquired his share of talent, and the lineup the Dodgers put out everyday is what really matters. The lineup you assembled can’t hold a candle to that one.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 9:25 am
“Sure, your point is valid that Colletti has given up some talent without much to show for it.”
So you agree with the entire point of the post… What exactly are you arguing?
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 9:28 am
OK, but assume they kept Navarro, put Martin at third, still had Santana. They’d have some extra money from not signing Blake and might be able to pry a Red Sox starting prospect loose by trading either catcher.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 9:54 am
Jon,
Perhaps i’m a bit biased here, but isn’t evaluating a general manager all about what he does in free agency and in trades?
Why does it “not matter” just because the Dodgers look good now? Can you imagine how much better the Dodgers would be if they had somebody who wasn’t a moron in charge?
The only thing Colletti has done to get this good team is basically not trade one of the best classes of cost controlled talent in the majors away. If he keeps his job, he can thank Kim Ng and Logan White. Oh, and Dan Evans.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 10:12 am
I can’t believe I’m about to defend Colletti. Almost surreal. The thing is, no trade exists in a vacuum, and Nick is being wildly unfair here. To wit:
Navarro- The Dodgers had two great prospect catchers, Martin and Navarro, and Martin simply took the job. Navarro was not ready that season, and once Martin settled in there was no way the Dodgers were going to move him for a weaker player. Remember, Martin’s an all star too, and has the better career batting stats so far. And Hendrickson contributed out of the ‘pen at a time when the Dodgers badly needed an arm. Seo’s out of the bigs, and Ruggia’s a fifth outfielder. This one clearly goes in the plus column for Colletti.
Aybar- Willy had no way to find a position on the Dodgers. They needed more offensive contribution out of third, they had better prospects behind their starting middle infield, there was just nowhere for him to play. And Betemit looked like a solid third baseman with some pop. He was hitting .281 with 9 HR for the Braves at the time of the trade. Colletti traded a guy who was never going to be better than a fourth or fifth outfielder for a guy who looked like the future starter at the hot corner.
Delwyn Young- Are we knocking the Orlando Hudson signing? Because otherwise this is really the only move the Dodgers have with Young. He turns 27 this year, so he’s not some brilliant 22 year old prospect with sky high potential. I wish him well, but he didn’t earn a spot as even the fourth or fifth outfielder and is out of options. It was trade him or release him.
Betemit- Didn’t pan out, for the Dodgers or anyone else so far. Proctor contributed. Again, where exactly is the knock here?
Izturis- Should the Dodgers have kept him to back up Furcal? Cesar is clearly a starter, and he was making starter money ($3.2 million the season he was traded). He is what he is, a light-hitting defensive specialist, and the Dodgers replaced him with one of the best shortstops in the game both at the plate and in the field. Getting Maddux for Izturis was solid, whatever happened later with Maddux. Again, I’m really not sure what Colletti did wrong here. He didn’t “give up” on Izturis, he replaced him with a much better player and got something for him instead of releasing him.
Milton Bradley- Are you really saying you’d rather have Bradley than Ethier? Or that the Dodgers should have kept Bradley? Do you remember Milton’s time in LA? Am I going to write this whole paragraph completely in questions?
Cody Ross- Cody was 25 and still 2-3 years away when the Dodgers traded him. He never would have found a spot as better than a fifth outfielder for the Dodgers. With the emergence of Kemp and Ethier, he might not even be on the big club. Other than that I guess this one’s a fair cop, he is in fact a starter now.
Jayson Werth- Sure, he could have been resigned for a song. After all, he’d just missed the entire 2006 season with a string of injuries after playing in only 102 games in 2005 due to injuries. That’s injuries, plural. In his three years with LA he appeared in about 60 games a year. He also hit .247 with 23 home runs and about that many injuries. And he was 28. I’m real happy for Jayson that things worked out, but once again I remain unconvinced that this was a boner by Colletti.
Edwin Jackson- This one I won’t defend. I don’t think you give up good young pitching prospects for anything less than an everyday starter, and I was steamed when Jackson was traded.
Amazingly, you’re talking about 9 players, of whom only Jackson would clearly be a significant part of this team. And Colletti’s trade history also includes bringing in Casey Blake, the aforementioned Ethier, and someone named Manny. If you want to bash his free agent signings there’s more to work with in Jones and Schmidt and Pierre, although he’s made some good moves there too, but this is a pretty bad bit of writing.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 10:23 am
haha, I like the guy that tries to give ned credit for the manny deal. It fell in his lap! Trades are only the half of it. Let’s not get into his world class blunders in free agency. Jason schmidt? Juan Pierre? Andruw? How about drafting kershaw over lincecum? Colletti wouldn’t know talent if it bit him in the ass. He learned from perhaps the only gm worse, brian sabean, so alot of it makes sense
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 10:53 am
justin,
Okay, Lincecum vs. Kershaw you’re judging now. Now?…seriously, you’re gonna debate that now, when neither is even old enough to grow a freakin’ beard yet? And then you’re saying the only GM worse than Colletti is Sabean…who does Lincecum play for again? Where is Sabean the GM?
I call fail.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 11:16 am
this is a totally stupid article… how can you rip a GM moves by making a “team” of players he “gave up on” and then give him no credit for free agency moves or any other trades made, thats almost laughable. i am by no means a fan of colletti, but this is ridiculous… How many guys on that “team” he just made would actually start on the Dodgers? MAYBE edwin jackson? Thats it… the rest of those guys would at best be backups or even worse they wouldnt even make the 25 man roster. How many ALL-STARS were on that list? Milton Bradley… uhm ok, first off we got ethier for him which if anything should be considered a WIN and a steal for Colletti and the dodgers. Navarro? Dionar is a nice player but really..he plays in a great hitters park and in a great lineup but he is a GAP hitter at absolute best and still isnt as good as Martin. Colleti had to make a choice about who the dodgers catcher of the future was gonna b3, martin or navarro? does anyone honestly think he made the wrong decision? give me a break… The rest of those guys would never start on the team. Lets not forget to mention that most of these guys were given plenty of chances to win jobs here… Werth couldnt stay healthy, which is why he made his way to the dodgers in the first place from toronto. He was always an oft-injured prospect who at the time he was with LA was already steaming to the age of 27! Hardly a “prospect” at that age… and the rest of the guys on that list??? are you kidding me? I am sure there are alot of dodger fans that are real upset they have to watch loney, kemp, hudson and furcal instead of having izturis, cody ross, betemit and aybar… LOL just a ludicrous article from start to finish… nice job!
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Jon and Ken,
As I wrote myself in the post, there is obviously no comparison between this team and the actual Dodgers squad. But that is not the point at all. Just because a team doesn’t need a player or doesn’t have room for them is no excuse for getting nothing at all in return for them. And outside of Ethier (which again I did concede in the post), nothing is pretty much what Colletti got for all of these guys.
Again, setting aside Ethier, if Colletti had traded some of these players for pieces he actually needed or which were actually worth trading for, he may not have needed to make some of the outrageous free agent signings he made.
My point is that these are pieces that had actual value, but that Ned Colletti saw no value in them and thus virtually gave most of them away. As kensai says, as good as the Dodgers are right now (namely, sorta kinda pretty good), its maddening as a Dodgers fan to think of just how good this team could have been if someone other than a moron had been in charge.
And as Coley Points out, I didn’t even mention Carlos Santana.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Justin -
You fault Ned for selecting Kershaw over Lincecum? 9 other teams passed on the ’small framed’ Lincecum… and I hardly doubt that if you were a GM you would have done any differently. I personally saw Lincecum play in college, and although he was a freak even then, Kershaw will match Lincecum in terms of career numbers…KERSHAW IS 4 YEARS YOUNGER!
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
It seems like the Colletti administaration wanted to wipe the slate and unmake all of the moves made under Paul Depodesta’s watch. Werth, C Ross, and Navarro were traded INTO our depleted farm by DePo. Izturis was begrudgingly re-signed by Depodesta who was backed against the wall by fans and lack of options at shortstop. Bradley was a cost-effective OF whose emotions could, unfortunately, not be trusted (kinda like the guy we got in return but he has a better Skipper in Torre than MB did in Tracy).
The Edwin Jackson trade is what I think made EJ what he is. He has matured as a “journeyman” in a way that being handled as a pampered prospect might have prevented. I root for him to succeed in his career elsewhere but the point is the Dodgers lost on that one because the return was not a solid closer at all.
The other trades/non-moves don’t bother me.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Okay, we’ll call this post, “Ken got laid off and has nothing else to do this morning.” Here’s a look at Colletti’s tenure. Hardly the work of a moron.
After the 2005 season: Colletti inherited a team that went 71-91 and started such luminaries as Jason Phillips, Hee Seop Choi, Mike Edwards, Ricky Ledee, Milton Bradley, and J.D. Drew. The rotation was Lowe, Penny, Jeff Weaver, Odalis Perez, and D.J. Houlton. Yhency Brazoban closed.
2005-2006 Offseason:
Signings- And yes, I know this is about trades, but the signings help determine the trades.
Rafael Furcal, Kenny Lofton, Takashi Saito. All good signings. Saito helped make Sanchez expendable, Furcal made Izturis expendable.
Clearly good trades-
Milton Bradley & Antonio Perez for Andre Ethier
Clearly bad trades-
Edwin Jackson & Chuck Tiffany for Danys Baez & Lance Carter. It is worth noting, though, that Baez did pitch effectively for the Dodgers that season.
Marginally good trades-
Jarod Plummer for Wilson Valdez. Valdez contributed as a bench player, Plummer’s still at AA.
Marginally bad trades-
Duaner Sanchez & Steve Schmoll for Jae Seo & Tim Hamulack. I’m putting this here because Sanchez contributes and Seo is gone, but fwiw Seo was still a starting prospect and the Dodgers already had a strong pen.
During 2006:
Clearly good trades-
Izturis for Maddux. Izturis was buried on the bench, he only had 119 ABs. And Maddux went 6-3 with a 3.30 ERA as the Dodgers went to the NLDS. I’m sorry, man, but his is a good trade, period.
Sandy Alomar for BJ LaMura. Look at LaMura’s numbers in the minors in 2006 and tell me this wasn’t a good move with an extra piece, which is what Alomar was.
Danys Baez, Willy Aybar for Wilson Betemit. Remember how Betemit looked when the Dodgers got him, not how he turned out. They had a need at third and they got a young player who looked like he could fill that role for years to come. And Colletti didn’t overpay. Aybar is not exactly an all star.
Debatable-
Dioner Navarro, Jae Seo, Justin Ruggiano for Mark Hendrickson & Toby Hall. I know Navarro is good. But again, what were the Dodgers going to get for him in the summer of ‘06? He’d been unable to make it to the Yankees roster and outplayed by Martin for the Dodgers spot. Keeping him as a backup hardly seems an option, that’s not a good use of a young prospect, but leaving him in the minors indefinitely wasn’t going to increase his value. What, exactly, do you think they were going to get for him? They got a guy who was a sometimes-starter, sometimes-reliever and the backup catcher they needed. This was no great coup, but I’d really like to see a suggestion as to what else they were going to come up with.
Cody Ross for Ben Kozlowski. Minor league hitter for minor league pitcher. I know Ross is a big league player now and Kozlowski probably never will be, but what exactly were the Dodgers ever going to get for Ross? At 28 he’s a .260/22/73 guy, and that’s probably what he’s going to be, period. He’d never have played for the LA big club. Where exactly do we see a better trade materializing for him?
Odalis Perez, Blake Johnson, Julio Pimental for Elmer Dessens. On the minus side, Dessens didn’t contribute a hell of a lot. On the plus side, neither did Odalis, and he cost a hell of a lot more.
Joel Guzman & Sergio Pedroza for Julio Lugo. You don’t mention it, but this could end up being the trade that works out the worst from 2006. Guzman could yet be a productive starter.
The starters are now Martin, Garciaparra, Kent, Furcal, Betemit, Ethier, Lofton, and Drew. The rotation is Lowe, Penny, Sele, Billingsley, Hendrickson, and Maddux in various combinations. The closer is Saito. The team goes 88-74 and makes the playoffs despite having Grady Little as manager.
2006-2007 offseason:
Signings-
Juan Pierre, Randy Wolf, Jason Schmidt, Luis Gonzalez. In Colletti’s defense, Pierre wasn’t far removed from the days when he was one of the best players in the game. And while they clearly overpayed for Schmidt at 34, he did pitch over 200 innings the year before. Both were bad moves, but not Pavano bad.
Debatable-
Dessens for Brady Clark. Neither had much impact left.
During 2007:
Good trades-
Betemit for Scott Proctor- Betemit didn’t work out. This is another situation where I’m not sure what anyone thinks Colletti was going to get for him. It’s not like he’s gone somewhere else and torn it up.
Meaningless 2006-2007 moves:
Tomas Perez, Dwayne Pollok, Kelly Stinnett, Moeller, Denker/Sweeney deals. Pretty sure a case of beer and some BP balls were included in at least one of these. Fwiw, Hull and Sweeney have at least seen major league innings with the Dodgers, none of the rest of these guys has been in the show since the trades.
The starters are now Martin, Loney, Kent, Furcal, Garciaparra- who Betemit couldn’t displace-, Gonzalez, Pierre, Ethier. The rotation is Penny, Lowe, Wolf, Billingsley, Hendrickson, and Tomko. Saito closes. The team goes 82-80.
2007-2008 offseason:
Signings-
Andruw Jones, Hiroki Kuroda. To me, Jones is the unmitigated disaster of Colletti’s tenure. It’s not like the signs weren’t there.
During 2008:
Good trades-
Juan Rivera for Angel Berroa.
Carlos Santana & Jon Meloan for Casey Blake. Clearly a good trade for the Dodgers. Blake has been great, and Santana is a catcher. He may be good, but he wasn’t going to be good enough to displace Martin. And, like with Navarro, you don’t keep valuable commodities withering away in the minors when you have needs. Blake is a big part of a West-winning team. This is a good trade.
Andy LaRoche & Bryan Morris for Manny. I know it fell in Colletti’s lap, but that means it also fell in everyone else’s lap. Colletti’s the GM who got him. If Manny’d ended up on any of the other teams who were interested there would have been no playoffs. This was the best LA trade since Pau Gasol.
Meaningless 2008 moves:
Hull/Lara trade in April
You know how the season turned out and what the roster issues were at the end of it.
2008-2009 offseason:
Signings-
Blake, Ramirez, Furcal, Orlando Hudson, Randy Wolf, you know the list.
So this year we have the cream of the young crop in Martin, Loney, Ethier, Kemp, Billingsley, Kershaw, and McDonald. He kept DeWitt, who among all the Dodgers’ coveted prospects is the most likely to succeed. Colletti’s put together a team that will contend this year and only get stronger, the upside is enough to make any Dodger fan smile. Or it should be.
It’s too soon to talk about Colletti’s drafts, but it’s notable that he drafted Kershaw. So show me a trade other than Edwin Jackson where he got taken or didn’t get value back. He’s blown three notable free agent signings, but tell me where you think he should have a better player as a result of a trade.
I honestly think we get so used to bashing people that we can’t just evaluate clearly. We’re blinded by the Jones and Schmidt signings, so we say Colletti’s a bad GM. The truth is he’s put together an exciting team with huge potential for the future and he’s done it without Yankee or Red Sox levels of spending. I’ll take Ned over Depo any day.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
I am sure all 9 of the guys you listed in your post are glad that you took the time out of your day to recognize them because their careers haven’t done much to warrant such attention.
Sure sitting back and analyzing a trade after the fact is easy to do. Truth be told at the time of each trade Ned received fair market value. (crap for crap) Look at each players career numbers and you wont find anything worth batting an eye at.
To blame Ned for free agent signings and/or trades is unfair, the McCourt’s have proven to be a very hands on ownership and seemingly make illogical baseball decisions. Ned, I don’t envy you.
I do have to agree with the Carlos Santana trade – man he plays a killer guitar!
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Nick,
” Just because a team doesn’t need a player or doesn’t have room for them is no excuse for getting nothing at all in return for them”
^^^^^^^^^^
Couldnt disagree with you more… as I said before, you only have so many roster spots and so many options for players. You CANT keep everybody… that was the whole reason the league instituted “option” and a rule 5 draft… and what leverage do you think a GM like colletti has when he has a player out of options and 3 guys that can play at that position and the rest of the league knows it?? NONE… you are not always going to be able to get a players full value when everyone in the league knows you have nowhere to put him on the ML roster and he is out of option or has enough experience to decline a minor league assignment
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Dang. Some of these posts have HUGE LOGIC FAIL. Seriously, here’s an analogy: A rich guy with 50 Bentleys wants a hybrid, since he has an overflow of Bentleys he’ll trade me one for a prius. Some of you are arguing that that’s ok. Cause he doesn’t NEED the Bentley, and he got something he did, a Prius. I just traded a 25K car for a 250K car. But that’s Kosher. Because we didn’t NEED (Navarro, Jackson, Santana) it justifies dumping them for well below market value.
Bottom line, Colletti is a TERRIBLE GM.
And to the dude who said the Blake deal was good for the Dodgers? Can you give me the number of your dealer? Cause I want to smoke what you’ve got. That deal was UNIVERSALLY panned, and the Dodgers gave up more for Casey Blake (who leads the league in K’s with crappy defense!) than the Brewers gave up for freaking CC Sabathia. Yikes.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
The point is that Colletti LITERALLY got nothing in return for very good major league talent.
Certainly we have better options on the current team, but would any of you consider that Colletti could have gotten at least 1 decent prospect in return for guys like Navarro, Jackson, Young, etc… The only good player he received was Ethier and in that case he had to give up a very talented (though crazy) Milton Bradley.
Last year when the Dodgers needed a third baseman Colletti decided to trade their top 5 prospect Santana for Casey Blake. If they had just one more player and a few extra dollars they could have easily gotten Adrian Beltre. A superior defender! A far superior bat. But he had already given up all his depth for basically nothing. The current Dodger team could be even better! Consider that if he had made a few moves for useful guys, he could have gotten Jake Peavy this offseason.
Ned Colletti is the worst GM is all of baseball!
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Just to clarify Casey Blake has been turruble in his time with the Dodgers.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
AND Colletti is not at all responsible for the drafts! The entire draft is handled by Logan White. Colletti deserves absolutely no credit here.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
“Clearly bad trades-
Edwin Jackson & Chuck Tiffany for Danys Baez & Lance Carter. It is worth noting, though, that Baez did pitch effectively for the Dodgers that season.”
So effectively that we traded him to the Braves.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
“In Colletti’s defense, Pierre wasn’t far removed from the days when he was one of the best players in the game.”
Pierre had one good season. (2004) Since then he was obviously on the decline. Pierre has continued to slip. One of the worst signings in baseball at time and it continues to get worse as future Dodger decisions are made based on him taking a roster spot that should go to superior players. (Young, Paul, Hu, Repko… anyone really is superior to Pierre).
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
I’ll take Kershaw over Lincecum any day of the week.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Dang. Some of these posts have HUGE LOGIC FAIL. Seriously, here’s an analogy: A rich guy with 50 Bentleys wants a hybrid, since he has an overflow of Bentleys he’ll trade me one for a prius. Some of you are arguing that that’s ok. Cause he doesn’t NEED the Bentley, and he got something he did, a Prius. I just traded a 25K car for a 250K car. But that’s Kosher. Because we didn’t NEED (Navarro, Jackson, Santana) it justifies dumping them for well below market value.<<<<<<<<<<
uhm no, some of us (mainly YOU) are missing MY (or our) Point completely… it isnt an “overflow”, colletti doesnt have the choice of just keeping every talented guy we have in the system. Half the players on that list were out of options, meaning they could NOT send them to the minors so they either had to stay on the roster or be traded… and when EVERY team in the league KNOWS you have to trade someone then that seriously depreciates the value you are going to be getting in return…
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Carlos Santana & Jon Meloan for Casey Blake. Clearly a good trade for the Dodgers. Blake has been great, and Santana is a catcher. He may be good, but he wasn’t going to be good enough to displace Martin. And, like with Navarro, you don’t keep valuable commodities withering away in the minors when you have needs. Blake is a big part of a West-winning team. This is a good trade.
Actually Ken, it was a good trade but still don’t like it that would mean Martin would had to be move to 3rd bases and Santana behind the plate and I still think this trade would bite us in the butt like the Pedro and Delino trade.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
It’s too soon to talk about Colletti’s drafts, but it’s notable that he drafted Kershaw. So show me a trade other than Edwin Jackson where he got taken or didn’t get value back. He’s blown three notable free agent signings, but tell me where you think he should have a better player as a result of a trade
That’s wrong Ken and it was Logan White.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Beltre made a big mistake leaving LA, I doubt they really wanted Beltre at the time and they would had cost a couple of more prospect wasn’t really worth it.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Ethier is gonna be a better player than bradley when it’s all said and done. martin over navarro, anyday.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
if the dodgers just signed kenny lofton for one more year then they would never have signed pierre to that unnecessary 5 year contract and thus delwyn young would still be on the dodgers as a switch hitting bat off the bench
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Ken has this pretty much right. I do agree that some of the players on this list were more valuable than what was received in return. The problem is the lack of roster space and options for the remaining players and the availablity of quality minor leaguers to fill positions where the Dodgers are weak in the system. Coletti has not been perfect but the damage DePo did in one year has taken a long time to clean up. DePo was in love with Navarro and Martin is clearly a better player. It took Navarro two years in MLB to develop while Martin had an immediate impact.
Does LoDuca, Mota, and Encarnacion for Choi, Bill Murphy, and Penny ring a bell? The Dodgers almost missed the playoffs because of that disaster.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
Despite a couple of shaky points, Ken’s post is largely correct. While I’m no fan of Colletti’s either, you can’t just evaluate these deals in a vacuum and say Ned’s a moron.
Just to elaborate, though, that Casey Blake deal was anything but a “clear victory” for the Dodgers. Carlos Santana is widely viewed as one of the top catching prospects in the minors, someone with big time power who could, indeed, replace Martin. Trading him for the *waaaay* overrated Casey Blake is nothing short of embarrassing.
So, like I said, while Ken is mostly right, he’s very wrong on this one. Indefensible.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
Several of these are clearly bad examples. For example, Milton Bradley, even if it hadn’t been a good trade (6 years of Andre Ethier for 2 years of an angry and oft-injured Milton Bradley is obviously a good trade), has been a free agent twice now since that trade – meaning he probably wouldn’t have been a Dodger even if he wasn’t traded. Izturis is the same – he’s since been a free agent, so he’s irrelevant.
For the others, Werth was mediocre and coming off significant injuries – a very defensible decision, at the least. Navarro and Jackson probably weren’t very good trades, although they did attempt to fill holes with the big league club. Aybar, Young, and Betemit are all utility/4th outfielder types – those types of guys get traded all the time. And I don’t see how you can fairly include both Aybar and Young on this list when they never would have had Betemit if they hadn’t traded Aybar. Cody Ross (starting in RF, not CF, by the way) has a .322 career OBP – mediocrity defined.
In the end, we have one very good trade, one semi-decent trade (Izturis for Maddux), 2 bad-ish trades, and a bunch of inconsequential trades. I don’t think Colletti’s a very good GM, but I don’t think we have very good evidence presented here in regards to that.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
I’ve read that Colletti blows but if this is the best evidence I must say his critics are off their rockers. Every single one of those players either blows or is a malcontent. I’d bet I could make a better case, using your same criteria, that Colletti may just be the best GM in baseball.
Navarro?
Aybar?
Young?
Betemit?
Jackson?
….
are you people serious?
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
Wow, when you list it all this way, you actually make Colletti look pretty good. I’ve seen all these guys play for the Dodgers. We didn’t want any of them.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 11:46 pm
First off, all posts the use the pronoun “we” when referring to the Dodgers make me laugh. Listen dorks, you are not on the team. Its a business that barely even cares that you (in singular) exist.
Secondly, this article is based on a bunch of false premises. The first one being that the Dodgers could have somehow rostered all these players mentioned. Its the nature of professional sports. Even teams that win the world series have to turn a portion of their roster to avoid getting old and bad. For every Edwin Jackson there are five Steve Schmoll’s or Derek Thompsons. All pro athletes play for multiple teams these days. Your team is trying to win the world series, you need to trade something of value to get something of value.
Here are a few other points
Cody Ross is useless on a good team
Trust me – D. Navarro needed to be traded. It wouldn’t have worked for him in LA.
Carlos Santana is a very good prospect – that makes the odds at about 1 in 4 that he ever has a good year in the majors.
Edwin Jackson has had two good starts, lets not give him the Cy Young just yet.
Ned spends like a drunken sailor on leave. He’s is not thought as one of the more cerebral GM’s. Enjoy it. Enjoy cheering for a team that will do anything to try to win the world series. There are only a handful of teams that can do that.
REPORT COMMENT
April 17th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
Ned defenders – you say the team had needs and your GM was just filling them, but then why did you end up with, at one point, 36 outfielders? Why did you have James Loney pointlessly blocked for a good portion of his rookie year by Nomar Disabledlistparra?
Sadly, Colletti’s shopping style on the hot-stove market reminds me of my own shopping weakness when I go into my favorite boutique. Always, I buy earrings. I have TONS and TONS of earrings already – and in fact, their is only ONE pair I wear with any regularity. What I really need are some blouses to wear to the office. Yet I keep wasting my money buying MORE earrings! And instead of saving up and buying one new pair of really nice earrings, I fritter my money away on impulse buys! Then I look back at them and think, “Ugh, those are hideous!!!” I have a jewelry box full of Andruw Joneses! Somebody, stop me!
(It goes without saying that the NL West is so shit-tastic that it makes a little piece of me die inside that my 90-something win Red Sox might end up shut out of the playoffs this year while your 80-something win Dodgers make it in. Disgusting.)
REPORT COMMENT
April 18th, 2009 at 8:27 am
that other post by “jim” wasnt me…but I got to say, I agreed with everything that jim had to say as well… must be somethin about the name…jk
REPORT COMMENT
April 18th, 2009 at 11:36 am
It’s easy to knock trades or moves in retrospect, but to say we got nothing in return is silly. No trade lasts forever, baseball teams are in perpetual motion, all those trades provided us with temporary help at the time that helped us compete and make the playoffs. Just because we still don’t have the players doesn’t mean we got nothing, trades are used as a tool for temporary relief as well. Remember when Ned picked up Marlon Anderson in 06 who subbed for a struggling Ethier? Anderson tore it up (.340 ) and we made the playoffs.
REPORT COMMENT
April 18th, 2009 at 11:54 am
To truly knock Colletti names like Shmidt, Pierre (who I like actually, it’s just that ARM ) Jones and Loaiza need to be mentioned. But then you can throw out names like Ethier, Furcal, Saito, Anderson, Manny, Blake and even Nomar. The players he has decided to build this team around and keep that are homegrown talent that are incredible, Kemp, Loney, Martin, Billingsley, Broxton, Kershaw, Dewitt,with a pretty good crop of youngsters still due. There are plenty of moves he could have made and didn’t, every team has asked for those guys in trade discussions, and due to his decisions we have an incredible core of young, productive big league talent. Logan White for GM is a nice slogan to throw out, however I think he is doing a great job right where he is. Keep drafting awesome talent that we can build with and make trades when we need to. Ned Colleti’s regime is 3 years in with 2 playoff appearances, 4 playoff victories and a wild NLCS.
REPORT COMMENT
April 18th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Great, great post Sarah. You had me rolling on the floor. I think your analogy summed up Colletti perfectly. Whose fault was it that Neddy had moderately talented prospects on his roster with no remaining options? If he had any foresight/impulse control, he would have been able to mentally try on and evaluate his “earrings” before parading them around town, realizing they didn’t jive with his new look, and getting desperate and taking them to the pawn shop to trade for a scratched up DVD of Alf, Season 2. Seriously, the guy has repeatedly put himself in a bad position and wound up getting bent over a barrel because of it. Sure his hand may have been forced, but that’s what happens when you show everyone your cards- you get bluffed off your bet by better players. Going all in on a 7-2 off suit repeatedly and taking down some small pots at serious risk (Jones, Pierre, Schmidt, Disabledaparra) doesn’t make up for the winners that you misplayed. This post brought to you by the letters “A” for analogy and M for “mixed metaphors.”
REPORT COMMENT
April 18th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
What a ridiculously biased “analysis” this entire post is. I love how you just dismiss the Ethier acquisition…Colletti beat Billy Beane like a red-headed step-child in that trade, and that cannot be understated. Ethier is now a major cog in a World Series-caliber lineup. Getting anything for Bradley at that time would’ve been nice, because his stock just wasn’t that high at the time, and even now Bradley is still about as dependable as Ozzy Osbourne is lucid.
The Dodgers have Russell Martin, so we had no need for Navarro. He moved him hoping to get help from Hendrickson and Hall. Nothing wrong with that. Navarro wasn’t going to help the Dodgers. It’s actually better for him that he went somewhere where he could play. What did you expect Colletti to get in return for an OK prospect at the time?
As for Delwyn Young, I’m not sure what you see in him. Cite all the minor league stats that you’d like. And you’re overrating Hu big-time. I’m not saying Castro is great, obviously, but he’s no worse of a fielder than Hu (both are defensive wizards) and is probably a better hitter, too. Hu will never ever hit in the big leagues, I promise you, so I can’t wait to hear you complain when the Dodgers eventually trade him too.
You cite Willy Aybar and Wilson Betemit both, yet that trade was basically Willy Aybar, Betemit, and Baez for Proctor. Aybar’s a decent bench player, but that’s what he is, a bench player. Eminently replaceable. These are not players of significance!
You complain about Greg Maddux? Losing Izturis was NOTHING for the Dodgers. Maddux did OK performance-wise down the stretch that season, but more importantly, his effect on the younger Dodger pitchers was tremendous in that pennant race, and they will be the first to tell you that. The Dodgers had Furcal at the time. What did you expect them to get for Izturis? Good God.
Cody Ross is not the starting center fielder for the Marlins, he is the right fielder, and has never proven that he can be an everyday player. We’ll see if he can do it this year. Even if he can, the Dodger outfield is well stocked. They are losing nothing by not having him on the roster.
Werth is certainly making a nice little run after his wrist problems with the Dodgers, but again, I ask you, where would he be playing if he were with the Dodgers right now? The Dodger outfield is stacked! The Dodgers aren’t losing anything by his not being with them. Had he stayed with the Dodgers, he would be a fourth outfielder and pinch hitter. That’s it.
Of all the players you mentioned, the only one that could be of legitimate use to the Dodgers is Edwin Jackson, who could be our fifth starter. And even that is very replaceable (the fact he’s the third starter on a bad Tiger pitching staff is irrelevant).
Colletti surely has made his mistakes in free agency (Andruw Jones, Jason “Not Worth A” Schmidt, and Pierre come to mind), but this analysis isn’t a very good one, quite frankly. If you just look at this 2009 Dodger team, they have above-average position players at 6 of the 8 spots on the diamond, including one superstar (Manny Ramirez), and Loney and Blake are at least league-average at their positions. The pitching might not be great, but certainly, it’s solid. And the team is well-positioned to trade for an ace like Halladay or Oswalt if they are dangled at the trade deadline. You also fail to mention that Colletti gave up basically nothing to get Manny. Yes, Andy LaRoche is nothing. Or are you upset about losing him too?
REPORT COMMENT
April 19th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
This absurd comment thread perfectly sums up the difference between people who believe every player on the roster is important and those who feel that if a guy doesn’t get 90 RBIs per year (Or, God help us, hit .300), he’s a bum. You’re allowed a 40-man roster. Maximize the value there.
REPORT COMMENT
April 20th, 2009 at 12:07 am
Mike, Too bad Colletti didn’t get maximum value for guys like Navarro, Edwin Jackson and now Delwyn Young. He’s certainly more interested in maximizing his payroll on bad investments like Schmidt, Jones, and Pierre.
REPORT COMMENT
May 20th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
Ummm… you Dodgers fans sound like us Jays fans, complain about everything the GM does and then come out and lead your respective leagues 1/4 of the way through. I feel your pain, but most of those trades weren’t that bad, the only two players on that list worth having are Werth and Jackson, but there’s no room for Werth anyways.
REPORT COMMENT
June 8th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
“I honestly think we get so used to bashing people that we can’t just evaluate clearly. We’re blinded by the Jones and Schmidt signings, so we say Colletti’s a bad GM. The truth is he’s put together an exciting team with huge potential for the future and he’s done it without Yankee or Red Sox levels of spending. I’ll take Ned over Depo any day.”
So what you’re basically saying is that Colletti has done nothing, and has let Logan White and Kim Ng’s player development do 3/4 of the work for him, so that makes him a good GM.
Sweet.
REPORT COMMENT
June 8th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Mike-Team success has nothing to do with the job Colletti is doing.
I know a lot of morons like to say the ends justify the means, but they don’t. That’s how you end up with the current Yankees. Run things irresponsibly for long enough, and you will mess up your franchise eventually regardless of payroll or anything.
Colletti has been a terrible decision maker since he’s been in control. That’s what GMs do, they make decisions. Do we sign this guy? Do we trade this guy? What can we get back? Can we help this team win?
He is being GIFTED more than half of his team from cost controlled sources, he has a decent sized payroll, and he still wastes 1/3 of it every year on essentially worthless players.
REPORT COMMENT